Tomasz Resigns, CFTC Says "Golden Era Of Markets", OP Founder, OpenTrade & Rune, Securitize & Stani

Black down break down right now down. I'm off the back. JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I don't know what else to say. I'm bullish.

You said it. You finally said it. So, he's bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. down the back the H the B Hop up above the back. The rollup is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. We're on fourth floor today. We're going to be on floor one and then we're headed straight to the moon, boys.

Hey, happy Friday. Friday the 13th. A little spooky out there. First day of the week that we've talked about the market and it's been green. Hey, I just think shout out happy Valentine's Day coming up tomorrow. You got to just say I forgot about that. You got to just say to anyone that doesn't have a girlfriend, you look at the candles out there, it's all you need.

I thought I saw thread guy had a stream. He was like, "Dude, if you don't have a date locked down by Tuesday this week, then you're cooked." Thought it was pretty funny. The right guy's a certified lover boy. That's for sure. The market's gonna bail out everyone on these expensive dinners they're taking people out on.

What's going on? Hype 31.7. How about Sky? How about Neo freaking Finance? Shout out to everyone that was on that A train. Rumor Mills hitting hot this week. Layer Zero, A Sky, Ethereum Foundation, Uniswap, Black Rockck. Guys, we hit a lot this week in terms of news coming down the wire.

So guys, we had a sick stream today. We've got Rune from Sky, the founder. We've got Stani, the founder of A. We've got the optimism founder, Carl. We've got Securitiz's new head of issuance and issuers, Zen Gui, and a lovely member from Open Trade. So, a lot of tokenization, a lot of neo finance, a lot of kind of token talk today. Should be a banger.

Look, I am particularly excited because we are crossing the chasm on Roll-Up TV and we've got representatives from both sides of the aisle. Obviously, Stan's been on the show before, Rune has been on the show before. These guys are Goliaths in the DeFi world. And then you flip over to the other side and you've got the institutional world. You got tokenization coming from securitize and open trade and then optimism is kind of an RWA dark horse and they've pivoted quite a bit refined their strategy when it comes to RWAs.

We'll be hearing from Carl about that to get us warmed up. Without further ado, plenty to go over. Andy, we got 20 minutes before Carl joins. Why don't we get right into it?

Yeah, man. Let's do it. So first and foremost innovation advisory council plenty of people that we know on this which is particularly exciting and so the chairman of the CFTC Mike Celig said that he's proud to announce the innovation advisory committee the IA's broad financial sector insights which actually is pretty broad obviously a lot of these people come from the crypto world. But then you have DraftKings and FanDuel founders on this on this list that we'll get into. These guys will help the CFTC future proof its markets and develop clear rules of the road for the golden age of American financial markets.

Yeah, man. I mean is it's kind of funny that the title here in the image is the Kashi screenshot. Golden Age of Financial Markets, prediction markets. Claire Cart commented on my tweet and was like, "Don't forget gambling." thought that was pretty ironic.

Well, I actually I have something to say about that because I think people forget that when you're looking at gambling markets often times they are they're clearly a risk on industry but it's a lot of the same financial infrastructure that underpins like you prop betting and parlays and moneyline things and so these are just another form of markets prediction markets are blurring those lines even more and I think the fact that you have FanDuel and DraftKings people on this list shows that they're actually one of the more forwardthinking groups within the broad industry of markets.

I mean they're able to take the list is nuts. They're able to take risks. Yeah. They are. I mean you've got Hayden Adams, CEO of Uniswap Labs, Brian Armstrong, CEO of Coinbase Shane from Poly Market. You've got Tom Farley, CEO of Bullish. You got Brad Garlinghouse, CEO of Ripple, president of FanDuel, CEO of Cali, CEO of Crypto.com, Chris Dixon from A16Z, Sergey from Chain Link. Let's not forget our our boy Vance Spencer from Framework Ventures, you know, one of the one of the founding fathers of Neo Finance, the CEO of Intercontinental Exchange, Vlad from Robin.

So, pretty insane lineup. I I was getting some push back on my tweet. People were saying like they were expecting that this wasn't that positive for it wasn't that positive for DeFi because the people that were kind of coming into this world aren't that there's not much DeFi support here other than Hayden. So they weren't that positive on the DeFi aspect of things.

Look, I mean this is just the state of things, right? We're moving into a world where we have a innovation advisory committee because so much is happening on chain with prediction markets with DeFi with these new types of asset classes new types of markets and I don't know man this list also people were saying it looks staged looks put together I don't know there was a lot of interesting takes around how this list was created let's put it that way it sounds like people are upset that they weren't included on this list which is how it goes for any list.

I think it's important to keep in mind that this is the CFTC. And so when we're thinking through the impact that these people will have on financial markets and innovation, it's primarily going to be derivatives and commodity markets. The fact that they're taking into account so many crypto people inside of com of a commodities market, Innovation Council, seems to me that a lot of these things are either going to get a carve out as their own asset class or be considered commodities all together.

And so when you're looking at, you know, how we're going to split up DeFi, tokens, yield coins, the sorts of things, there's been this whole debate, are they securities, are they commodities, are they something completely new? Clarity Act is going to help distinguish this as well.

Well, I'm for this. I think the fact that they're taking into account, and this has been a pillar of this entire administration, they've taken industry leaders, like you have Scott Bessant, someone who's proficient at trading currencies in charge of the Treasury. It just makes sense to put industry leaders that are at the forefront of financial innovation into a place where they can advise the administration on how to navigate that innovation.

I just think that they're so much more open-minded and thoughtful about the direction that this regulation is heading. And I I mean, call me contrarian, but I think this is bullish.

I mean, I hear you, man. I think it's positive for the market as well. I just think that there's definitely some push back around these like elite committees being created to dictate the markets and yeah, so anyway, move moving on. Congrats to everyone who was listed. big big day. Moving on from the chairman Celix's post, we've got the Fed paper. This is initial margin weights for their new product, which is kind of surprising as well in its own way. Margin weights for crypto linked derivatives.

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Again, something that we've been talking about quite a bit, Andy. You know, I've been I've been harping on the idea of credit creation as a result of tokenized equities and and tokenization of digital assets. The more that we're able to tokenize, the more that we have an a better understanding of risk and where it exists within the system at any given time, this makes liquidators and margin callers a lot more willing to extend credit, which doesn't necessarily mean rehyp.

I was a rehypothecation minimalist for a long time after Teral Luna, after FTX. I thought if we're extending loans and we're issuing credit, that is a bad thing. That is leverage and that's just going to lead to a systemic liquidity contagion and it inevitably ends in blowup. I've come to realize that, you know, through the basis trade and through just a better understanding of financial markets as a whole, that our system rests on loans and credit, that is what has been ever since we got off the gold standard, that's the way this system operates.

And so, it's actually not, you know, debt isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just something to be, you know, something very powerful. It's something to be used responsibly. And so when we're looking at how margin is being computed, you know, within tokenized derivatives, I think this is a step in the right direction. Again, regulatory rules of the road are going to have a better understanding of where risk is, where margin is extended, who's overextended, and and ultimately where we should liquidate positions to maintain uh healthy debt in the system. as we're able to get a better understanding, we issue more credit, we issue more debt, and and this is this is how uh how the things go around.

So, a couple notes here. The Fed is basically recommending separate risk weightings for floating cryptos. Basically, ETH, Bitcoin, and then obviously PEG stable coins have, you know, they have quote unquote different volatility patterns. They're trying to basically create a benchmark index to model crypto market behavior.

Yeah, I mean, cool. Great. Congrats, Fed. You know, this is part of their shift, right? This is part of the broader bank engagement with crypto. Skinny master accounts apparently are coming for crypto companies at the Fed perhaps. So yeah, that was announced a couple months ago, the skinny master accounts.

I I think, you know, it's important to remember that the Fed obviously controls interest rates and we have, you know, Jerome Pal and Kevin Wars get on the podium every once in a while. And then they control some aspects of regulation, but by and large, the Fed is also doing research. And so when they put out these papers and like these thought pieces, I I think it's important to read between the lines here. The Fed proposing margin weights is a suggestion to brokers when they are the ones that end up implementing margin requirements on tokenized assets.

And so you can really think about this Fed paper as a research piece that they end up giving to Goldman and Citadel and City and like you know the institutional market makers at large that are now starting to and JP Morgan that are now starting to get into you know the crypto brokerage game and and you know because they are just now kind of getting into it they don't have uh empirical data to base a lot of these requirements off of, you know, it requires simulations.

And so I think if you're looking at what the Fed is doing here, it's research and it's indicating that more of these brokerages and institutions are going to get deeper and deeper into extending margin on tokenized assets.

Yeah. Uh Cooker, a big Twitter account guy, responded to one of my tweets yesterday and that was that was kind of what I said about what's going to happen in the immediate term for tokeniz, you know, tokenized assets, neo finance, private credit, etc. is just this extension of credit on chain.

So, let's move on here from from the Fed and their new margin weights. Yeah. Next, we got Jesse. Yeah, interesting post here. Yeah. So again, like there's rumors coming out all over the place. Jesse's arguing that the SEC could issue a token safe harbor. Yeah. For what they're considering non-security tokens, uh, and legitimize cash flowing DeFi tokens as a formal asset class, not securities, but have a carveout in the regulation for this asset class in particular. And we've been calling these yield coins.

I mean what they really are is there's they're basically securities on chain but they have different properties than other you know actual securities because there's you know they run on these immutable smart contracts or these decentralized smart contracts uh they're non-custodial right so the and the way in which that the that the revenue is generated is not typical like customer paying it's like fees from um you know different uh I mean it is customers paying but it's not like a BTOC transaction It's there's liquidation fees. There's all these different types of things that happen.

So my take on this, the anticipated SEC safe harbor for nonsecurity tokens will formalize cash flowing DeFi tokens as an asset class making them institutionally investable. At the same time, traditional assets are moving on chain in part thanks to forthcoming rule on making on forthcoming rulemaking on tokens. My take is I agree with Jesse. I think he's right. I think as a result of Black Rockck buying unis swap that would not have happened if there was not some upcoming uh regulation coming for cash flowing defy tokens.

I also believe that a's move is a part of this. A finally was released from their SEC investigation last August. I believe that this happening is going to set up the greatest asymmetric return trade in the entire space we've seen over the last six months. It's going to be there's going to be this realization in the market that the narrative based tokens are are completely fried and that the cash flowing tokens are now able to return cash back to their uh token holders in a regulatory compliant manner.

Should this in the market structure bill go through, I believe what's going to happen then is that there's going to be a massive shift in capital allocation onchain and on centralized exchanges where there's going to be a a very dense concentration into these cash flow and defy tokens. A lot of them are in our N7 neo finance bucket. Sky a uh Morpho Hyperlid um and Hyperlid. Yeah. many of these likes.

And so my take is I agree with Jesse here. I think he's right. And I think this is going to set this stage for one of the the biggest transfers of allocation profiling in crypto we've seen the last six months. This is the rotation. I I we've been talking about this for months, how you're right, the the the previous uh group was narrative driven tokens and you saw these things swell up and then ultimately just bouncy ball uh you know, volatility, death all the way down. the roller coaster meme, if you will.

Now, you have a small group of business, actual businesses that are driving revenue on chain. And so, if you're looking at the broad swath of assets that are out there, you have this long long tail. And if you're thinking that there's a rotation, which we are, of of capital from this long tale of assets into a smaller subset of the token uh the token complex and and these are altcoins or tokens that have real businesses. They're driving revenue and those businesses are actually driving the revenue back to their token. We're going to see this uh capital swell into this this subset of this asset class.

And in particular, you know, we we had um uh yesterday we had Santi on, right? And Santi is talking about the difference between equities and tokens and and how equities are a right to future cash flows of a particular asset uh that stock. That's that's what an equity is. And right now that that assurance does not exist in the token market. What I think this asset class carveout could do is it could bring the gap between equities and tokens closer.

And yes, you have to set aside yield coins, but thinking about what these network tokens that have real businesses are. These things have cash flows and the investors deserve a right to those cash flows if you're buying the token. So I think absolutely this is something that we're going to see more of and it does open this to a new set of institutional investors because they're used to the investor asurances from equities. Now if we see that in tokens we're we're going to see a large suite of investors come into the space.

Yep. That's also a big a big important takeaway that I was talking to a couple guys from some pretty uh good solid funds yesterday and talking about how this makes a institutionally what what a let's just move on to a because I think uh you know what what happened there is that um a now becomes institutionally investable if this goes through is kind of the AB's got that I got from we're going to talk with Stonnie but I mean I was looking into a revenue venue yesterday, last night kind of prepping for Stanie. I mean, they've got hundred million revenue streams. So, absolutely, there's a business here and if this is flowing back to the token, then we're going to make a a something that would be I I'd be curious to see where they would rank in terms of equity if the token had similar investor protections.

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely pretty cheap right now, I think. Uh but not really sure. All all I know is that if you guys were a part of that part part of the A fam this week, good trade. So a new alignment framework that directs 100% of product revenue to the A DAO treasury under a token centric model. Effectively this is I mean this is the great unification of token and equity. Y we actually had Sam from Frack come on and talk about this this year how he believes this year is going to be the the great unification year. And I think this is a great example of this.

So uh I you know there's a couple key takeaways from this. One being that 100% of the protocol revenue goes to uh the the DAO token holders. The other kind of key takeaways here is that there is a solution for protecting the A brand. there's they will ratify a v4 as the protocol's core technical foundation for future development and they'll create a framework for the DAO to fund strategic growth and development. So pretty awesome for a and token responding well and yeah I mean I pretty I'm pretty excited to see that a is winning. I mean I don't know how else to put it. We are literally like we're watching them win. They deserve it.

So A is definitely a security then bullish. I don't think it's a security. It's part of this new asset class of tokens is my take. Yeah, obviously this is something that is a for-profit entity and so it is trying to maximize shareholder value or token holder value. But the way it deres that value is fundamentally different than an equity.

And and so um you know right now you have the Dow and you have the labs. If these things were to fully unify then we would have to look into why you know these things might not be considered securities. But at at the current point there's still a separation of of the two entities. And I think that is part of why we're seeing this carve out.

And so part of, you know, what what we're seeing from the from Jesse Walden kind of arguing this token safe harbor is that cash flowing DeFi is a new asset class separating from cash flowing equities. The reason being uh a a variety of different reasons that I don't feel particularly uh uh I don't think we're I don't think we're going to comment on the legal structure here.

Guys, if you're watching on YouTube, smash that like, smash that subscribe. We're here hanging out. We're here every day. We're going live from New York City in two weeks. You guys are going to be blown away. Blown away as what we're about to put together. Guys, we're going to move on from a that thing is ripping. Rumor mill strikes again and stoked to be here today. Our first guest is coming up really soon.

But guys, DJ Spartan is back. Den Spartan is back and he investing in stable stable coin blockchains. As the era of stable coins becoming the primary trading asset meaning exchange of the internet better infer is needed to support it blah blah blah. The growth of stable coins is undeniable and effectively egro capital DJ Spartan is going into stable blockchain when cal.

Yeah, man. I mean, Cow is also a damn good one that has revenue. They need to figure that out for themselves, but I bet they will. That is part of this like Yeah, I think Cow Swap is a is an interesting one. Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, it's a good one. I use Cow Swap.

So, if we scroll down a bit, we can see kind of more details about their in investment. Keep going here. Obviously, stable coins are are ripping. I have a transaction volume's flying. Stable the token. Let's look at this. Stable the token. Let's see. Stable. Stable's ripping as well. It's performed well on the last since Christmas. It's performed quite well. Hash dollar.

Yeah, I mean, dude, I I generally agree with this thesis. We are bowled up on plasma. We have plasma venture bags over here on our Good Idea Ventures fund. That's where we're placing our bets. But Eero Capital seems to have gotten some sort of OTC or opportunity to invest in Stable. So, congrats to them. Stoked for them and hope it goes well. And I just generally agree directionally with the thesis. It's a little bit weird that stable has been outperforming plasma so much. But that's the state of that's the reality that we're living in.

So we'll we will see what happens when Tempo goes live. Arc as well. I think all of these are probably going to end up doing okay. So that's where we're at. This is part of the NEO finance thesis. Stable coins are at the core of it. and stable coin blockchains like Arc and Plasma and Stable are building out a suite of financial products focused on stable coins.

I saw Habachi's announcement yesterday about refinement of their strategy from from general purpose per is such a significant modality of financial markets that it can be applied and specialized into particular areas and so yeah shout out to those guys. I think uh you know they they were able to execute I think it was10 billion dollars in volume which you know obviously compared to hyperlquid uh uh you know is is rather small market share but it shows product market fit and I think that is the key piece here that they're now able to specialize and so I think they they made a nice partnership with circle and arc as well and it just makes sense that we're going to see more of these specialization plays and so blockchains you know, specialize into stable coin blockchains. We're seeing PERS specialize into tokenized equity perex. This is a further refinement.

And a lot of the financial experimentation ended up getting too general and now we're seeing teams niche down, which I think uh which I think is actually a positive development for the industry. And so, all right guys, we've got our first guest, Carl Flourish, ready to come up on stage. He is the co-founder of Optimism. They've just recently brought ZK proofs into the OP stack. Happy to chat about that, but stoked to actually hear about their tokenized assets thesis RWA push and just kind of like generally what they're seeing with their inst institutional flows.

Lot going on in in that side. We're calling it NEO finance. It's what we think is is the next and most important wave of this industry for at least this year, if not the next couple years. So, let's get Carl up and let's get this show started, guys. There he is. Carl, welcome to the show, man.

Yo, calling in from one of those booths, those like sick telephone booth things. It's all about the It's all about the audio quality. It's good dampening in here, you know. Yes, sir. Absolutely. How you doing, man? Happy Friday. Happy Friday. I'm doing great. I'm thinking about enterprises. I'm thinking about Opie Enterprises. It's been a, you know, this is my enterprises. Jam. Absolutely, man.

Well, according to a blog that Optimism posted recently, the tokenization of RWAs is expected to be the primary driver of onchain asset growth over the next 10 years. So, it's no surprise that you're thinking about enterprises. tell us why you're thinking about enterprises and how you think enterprises are going to contribute to this blockchain space.

Oh yeah. I mean I I think we are in a real radically transformative moment for crypto. This has been kind of honestly in some ways years in the making. We've been like, "Oh, the financial rails. We are creating the new financial rails." And we've been saying it so much. And it is insane to see that like after, you know, 10 years of talking about this stuff that it's finally coming true. Like we have we've already seen a you know we've already launched like 50 live chains tons billions in TVL but we are starting to see a massive influx of all of these enterprise institutions like major financial companies that want to bring their assets onchain because bringing their assets onchain gives them all of these new capabilities that otherwise would not be possible in the traditional rails.

And so in we're we're basically where you know kind of where we fit in is where the folks that are out here trying to make sure that everyone who wants a chain has the ability to deploy that chain and not have to worry about all the crazy web 3 crypto insane stuff with you know upgrades security and you know management. We're we're trying to make that process as easy as possible so that we can go from being you know candidly a you know fraction of a percent of the global financial system to you know 100%. Let's go. Oh yeah. Yeah man.

I'm curious kind of about some of the so so we actually had Mark and your product guy on in Buenosarus. I'm I'm blanking. And we were talking about kind of like what what they are what they are after and you know this this kind of new new era of of in institutional flows in terms of capital as well as demand to interact on chain and also this new era of existence in the market of like less speculative demand. Demand for block space internally within the crypto natives has also dried up quite a bit. I'm curious like when it when it comes to interacting with um you know whether it's the the JP Morgans, the Fidelity, small banks, asset managers, funds, custodians, etc. Like what is it that you guys are providing that is really sticking like like what is it that is interesting to uh non crypto folks that are running more traditional fi financial strategies, funds, etc. firms? What is it that's interesting?

Nice. Yeah, they I mean resoundingly they want one uh control over their rails. They want to have a chain where they can, you know, bring their assets. Two, they want to be able to differentiate their chain from all of the other chains. They want to be able to customize it to make it special built for their needs. And three, they want it to happen fast and not to worry about all of the general uh there's a there's a perception that it's really hard to deploy a chain. And that perception is backed by something understandably, but it really doesn't have to be backed by something. It should be incredibly easy. And in fact, we know how to make it very very easy to bring a new chain into existence. So that is that is like overwhelmingly you know uh you know it's happening.

Yeah, it certainly is. Um Carl, I I'm curious about how optimism will fit into this broad neo finance stack. You know, we've been talking about this essentially as stable coins have been the wedge by which the legacy financial ecosystem and the DeFi ecosystem have really started to blossom. And then you've got a ton of financial mechanisms that are built around stable coins. And so, you know, I I I'm also, you know, looking at this blog post. It it seems that a lot of major institutions are projecting RWA in the trillions. Right now, we're looking at about 35 billion in RWAs as of the end of last year. You've got City projecting four to five trillion. You've got Deote projecting three trillion. JP Morgan projecting 16. standard charter projecting 30 trillion. This is all by 2030. And so once we have, you know, trillions of RWAs on chain, how does optimism fit into this this market?

Yeah. I mean, we're we're bringing the rails where those RD RWAs will sit, right? Like if you're bringing billions in assets that you are, you know, responsible in some way for, you are managing, you are somehow able to bring on chain, you better believe that you're going to want to make sure that the rails that you are built on are, you know, enterprisegrade, that they are controlled by you, that they are customized for whatever your, you know, users need. We are going to be the kind of catalyst. That's our goal is to be the catalyst that brings all that makes that transition so easy. Um, and it's really it really is going to be a massive massive transition. I mean, Ethereum and its L2s already are like 65% of all the RWAs today. And I think that that like that that lead and we're we're just seeing the beginning of RWAs coming on chain without question. And it's very obvious why they would. everything from, you know, 24-hour trading to, you name it, access to more liquidity. Like, this is it's kind of an inevitable future. At least that's, you know, some might say. I'm sure that many here would agree.

Carl, so we're calling this Neo Finance. I'm curious to get your take on it. We've kind of thought a lot about this idea of this convergence between legacy financial rails these these products these applications these uh you know whether it's a money market fund or a traditional private credit um you know fund etc etc and then you've got DeFi you've got like you know all the big DeFi applications you've got the blockchains and these two spaces are just converging very quickly to this newer era of finance it's not fintech because it's not custodial it's DeFi because there's a forgot password button, there's a customer support agent who can help you. There's a a much easier, cleaner UX, there's no seed phrase, there's no approve button. It's this it's this neo finance era and it's kind of coming together at at this point.

And so we're kind of thinking about this as like uh it's the easier way to onboard people onchain um in a much less kind of like scary kind of DeFi way. And again, then it takes it to the next step of like, okay, it's if the if we're thinking about like the enemies here, the enemies are are kind of like traditional finance is still, you know, custodial banks, T plus2, uh, you know, um, uh, trading settlement times, uh, custodians, etc., etc., etc. to some extent. And then just like typical infra slop, no product market fit on the crypto side, no real demand, not not any actual like real customers or or users or revenue. And kind of like those are like like the common enemies of the thesis. And then the thesis is really the convergence of of of you know traditional DeFi as we know it and legacy finance as we know it. kind of picking on the weaknesses of both and to actually make them a strength. Curious your take on neo finance. How would you describe neo finance?

I mean it is I'm very I like the I like the term neo finance. Basically what I have what is seemingly incredibly clear for over 10 years is that there needed to be an upgrade to the financial system and that crypto and crypto rails were so much better and so like from a fundamental technological perspective it made so much sense but it was unclear if it was actually going to happen if there was going to be the willingness. If there was going to be the adoption maybe some other alternative path would be going you know people would go down. But now we're at a point where it is actually coming true and the actual willingness and the the momentum is there and in and it feels like it's gaining speed essentially every day.

And so what I kind of see as this this transition I'm I'm really excited to see it uh kind of evolve into a I want to see a lot of diversity. I want to see all of these institutions coming on chain and I want them to have the ability to when they do come on chain to bring whatever their expertise is and bring whatever their financial products are that they are you know really good at building whatever they're and make the crypto ecosystem even more vibrant even more diverse even more customizable all of that kind of stuff like I I I I don't I think there's one interpretation of the world coming on chain and it's just like okay It's crypto but bigger numbers. But I think that we are actually like there's so much more that we can achieve when we have all of the institutional knowledge and all these builders that are building out these financial applications that are just bringing perspectives that I would not have considered then I mean don't even get me started on you you were saying that you know block space has uh demand for blockspace has dried up. I just I see it very obviously we are on the precipice of like every single AI agent uh you know constantly asking for like can I get like 0.00001 ETH um and this is like just I think we are like at the precipice of this transitionary moment and it's it's like anyway it's funny because I mean crypto is just the constant uh you know you you see the fundamentals and then you just like wait for the world. But that's that's how it is, right?

Okay. That's so good. You're so fired up. I feel like I feel like that, you know, so just like kind of rounding that out then, Carl. Um, what do you So, I got asked this on Twitter and I'm really curious your take. Um, you know, I put out this tweet about to uh I think Securitize put a graphic about how tokenization is like the next logical step for markets. And then, you know, you you could take it all the way back to like when we would like trade in coins and then cattle or cattle then coin, you know, like kind of like the whole like history of money thing that every crypto person has has like learned about, right? And then so now tokenized assets and tokenization of of equities 247 is like the next logical step. And this guy Cooker uh was like a pretty prominent like I don't know he's like salana kind of guy and had a lot of like like a big trader and he was like like you know what do you see as the big obstacles for this like do you think that this is just too early still and I kind of responded like like I was like you know I think it is a bit too early for this year to really see all this happening but it's happening unfortunately being early is often the same as being wrong. Carl, are we wrong? Like, is it too early for tokenization and tokenized assets and NEO finance or is it just the right time? Kind of talk to us about kind of like time frame. What are some of the obstacles that you