What's Next For Crypto In 2026 | Kairos Research

I think 2026 is likely going to be the most exciting year we've seen so far for like Salana perps. I think there's generally like a appetite for trading that we've seen from Hyperlquid users we haven't seen replicated on any other chain yet. One of the other exciting things is a lot like kind of the RWB products we'll see which are like they're actually not exciting actually really boring products but like they're really like there's like true actual innovation happening over there.

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Lightseed. A very special holiday Christmas Eve recording with my good friends Teddy Oerban and Ian Unsworth of Chyros Research. Glad to have you guys on. A little bit of a peculiar timing, but we needed to get this episode recorded before the holidays really kicked off. So, Ian, a little upset with you, your timing today. A little bit late, but I'm hoping you can make up for it today with some with some great answers. How you guys doing today?

Doing pretty good. I apologize not being punctual.

It's pretty nice being able to talk to you without having Picacio in the middle, too. I'd say that's a big difference.

Yeah, different experience. I feel like Bach he's a bit of an instigator at times. He wants to he always wants to start something.

Yeah, I I like his his format. It's fun. I feel like he's becoming more and more confrontational on the pod, which is nice. But yeah, he's also he's also just so funny. So, but nice to see your manning lights feed. You're doing really well.

Appreciate it. Love it. Well, I'm glad I can get you guys on. Um, I I think it's pretty topical like what you guys do with Chyros research at least relative to maybe some things you can speak on on the Salana Salana side of things. I wanted to maybe jump into that like what you guys do at Chyros and some of the developments we've seen on like the Salana kind of client and validator software side. Like I think we went from a very much like you were just sort of running like pretty much every validator out there was on JTO and Onza software for a long time but now there's you know you've got fire dancer coming into the mix. There's Gito Bam. Harmonic is pretty new to the fold and then there's like double zero as well which isn't like necessarily in direct competition with those other clients but still like another kind of additional piece of software you might run as a validator. Like I guess maybe you can talk to us a little bit about like being an operator and like your views on the landscape and like what's what makes sense to run today like where are the where are the trade-offs? Is it does it make sense to just like always be on the newest and greatest maybe due to some of the incentives they offer or how are you guys thinking about kind of the the landscape?

Yeah, I can I can take that one. So I guess like kind of quick background context on Kyra. So we're like a small research shop. We do research on anything that intersects around like market dynamics and protocol mechanics. So a lot of our research is around DeFi and then that kind of naturally stemmed into you know kind of base layer network operations as well. So that's how we actually got started running like a Salana validator. Late last year we kind of made that decision. We wanted to you know get into the validator space. So now we're on Salana, Fogo, Babylon, Celestia, and Menad as well.

And so I guess like kind of when looking at the Valdor landscape, we joined relatively late in the game. But this kind of helped us be very critical about all all of our decisions about you know actually becoming competitive on the Salana network which is yeah pretty difficult today just given it's the most competitive validator landscape by nature of just being the most used chain out there. So we've experimented with various client software like you know when we first joined we're just running vanilla agave then we went to like judo agave and then we ran frankindenser with the you know with judo and then we are now running judo bam so we've you've seen a lot of like different you know variations and a lot of the time it's just trying to optimize for our own stake which is I think that most validators are doing.

Right now there's small differences between, you know, client software out there, but there's not large differences. And I think that's just because, you know, the network is relatively, you know, distributed, I guess, like, there's not too much actually separate what is going to be able to be handled. Like even when you saw like uh the fire dancer native client actually take place now, it's like the thing it's best at is just voting extremely fast. And it really just comes down to like how many transactions are going to be in that next block that it, you know, has the chance to produce. So like, you know, there's not too many differences across like the valid land skip right now. Like they're marginal.

But do expect that to kind of change with the judo bam taking off and that's going to kind of allow for some unique uh block building I guess with all the plugins and ACE and all that and then also like you mentioned Danny Harmonic is now coming on the scene. We track all these pretty closely. I noticed that you know Harmonic was a small group of validators initially a lot of those just run by the temporal team. But actually looks like two of Coinbase's validators are now running harmonic which I think is an interesting call out. And then on on the Jud Bam side you know that's up to 128 validators now. So I think roughly 9% of network stake but yeah that's kind of a long-winded answer but yeah.

Yeah I think great overview. I guess I want to ask like if the differences between the clients are relatively small, like it would seem to me that the incentives like the staking um or the the the stake provided as incentives by some of these different teams like I'm pretty sure D0ero has a program. I think even Jud Bam has a new offering that they're doing for a certain time period. Obviously the Salana Foundation for a long time incentivized um validators with stake. Uh the I I would imagine that must be a big decision-m kind of part of the process today if the other differences are pretty small. Would you agree? Like if you let's say with or without incentives today like like how impactful would that be to your business?

definitely vary and I think you're kind of seeing that across the entire landscape like uh the Salana Foundation has started walking back some of its um like delegation programs they had uh and they're kind of scaling that back and they're kind of ripping off the band-aid and we're starting to find the natural network equilibrium of like this is how much uh it costs to run a validator this is you know how many validators are actually going to be on the network this is how much stake you need all these kind of natural things so I it was an inevitable thing, but we're always going to see a shift towards stake pools actually controlling the network. Like I think these are going to have a massive sway and you're seeing that right now between like you know jetto uh judo soul is like the largest stake pool you know double zeros is is very close as well and a lot of that stake that zero has comes from the salana foundation and a lot I think every single validator on the network that's not like an institution very much is optimizing across these programs and other smaller stake pools as well just to try to like get as much stake big as possible.

But yeah, I mean we if you look at the validator count in the network when we joined it was around 1,200. I think today it's around 800. So I mean there's a lot of validators dropping every single day. And again I think that's just kind of naturally what's going to happen on Salana. I think like most institutions will operate their own validators. um you know becoming I wouldn't say commoditized um but a lot more common uh for that to be the case like forward industries like you know they have their own validator a lot of the DATs it's the same thing with them so that's just kind of the natural progression I see gotcha and yeah and I guess if you're one of those larger players you just need to hire you know any unsworth to come and operate your validator and and and you're good to go and if you've got 20 million you active users that are going to drop some soul into into the account, then it's, you know, it's kind of like pennies and they and they tend to take a higher take rate on the on the inflation as well. So, it's sort of probably higher margins for them as well beyond your typical like onchain kind of DeFi native uh operator.

Yeah, for sure. Um, and a lot of the larger ones can also operate at scale in a way that smaller ones can't. uh like for we went at zero zero commission a bit just to get into the judo judo soul stake pool just because like that's one of the requirements is like you know they want to be able to pass on as much stake to you know people that hold judo soul as possible but I mean look at like the top 10 20 validators on the network a lot of them are at zero uh Helios I think kind of first to this trend um because if you go 00 you get more stake the more stake you get the more blocks you build the more blocks you more later like rewards you get. Uh so it's just kind of a natural thing and we're also seeing like uh Bitwise's validator like they do that as well. And so yeah, I think that's like another kind of trend you'll you'll see going forward.

But again like that's just one of the kind of weird economic like uh incentives for all proof ofstake networks. So I think it would play out like that for anywhere if they had this style and I think it just kind of you know likely accelerates over time but yeah you're totally right and um maybe just to kind of round it out so you operate on a couple different networks so mentioned Fogo Monad a few others like is it relatively sim you know maybe not to the maturity of the network but in terms of the operation of you know being a being a validator operator on these different networks is a similar playbook where those foundations are incentivizing stake to validators to kind of hop in and join join the ecosystem or how does that look across the fold?

Yeah. Yeah, that's the natural thing. And so I think that's also why if you pull up like any proof ofstake network for the most part the charts kind of all look the same. There's a couple outliers, but a lot of the times it's just like, you know, networks overpaying for inflation. Uh, and this results in, you know, validators dumping tokens because it's what you're incentivized to do because you're essentially getting uh like, you know, more money than you need because it doesn't cost that much to run these validators. So there are some like unique validators that really push the network forward. Like I think Salon has probably got the most unique validator set where um there are a lot of smaller early validators that have contributed uh in like an outsized way to the network because there's more I would say like opportunity for customization um on your validator whereas that's not really the case for a lot of other networks. So it's very very is much like commoditized on other networks.

And yeah, that's just kind of what what you see happen over there. And maybe one last like so I I think you mentioned TIA as well, which I think is an interesting one. So like in my mind I would almost wonder if it remains kind of like net net positive to operate for the TIA network considering just how significantly the token is drawn down or is as long as the inflation rewards are meaningful enough like it can still make sense to operate a validator there or is there some is there some like known kind of like drop off point where you'd expect you know participants to start falling out there because it I mean that chart has been a a account only thing for a long time.

For sure. Yeah. Um, so I mean as long as your inflation rewards are greater than your inflation plus like commission rewards are greater than like what it costs to actually run the validator plus like all the other operations that you're paying for on your team, which I think varies a lot. So like anytime a network wants to decrease inflation, they go to the governance forum, they put it down, and then you know a bunch of teams pop up saying like, you know, you can't do this. um it's going to like you know cost us like our this is going to hurt our business and it's like okay well like a lot of these businesses are just predicated upon like fake money falling out of the sky. And so it's like you need to you need to rip the bandit off in a lot of these networks.

And that's honestly why we joined like we just saw it as like here's a way to like get more involved on the networks itself like and we have a much better understanding of the base layer economics of a lot of these networks and we have more skin in the game. But the other side of it is just like you know purely financial and I think that's the case for a lot of these operators out there as well. Like I don't think too many people would do this as a charity.

Yeah, that make I think that makes a lot of sense. Um and maybe relative relevant to Salana as well. I know I think I think you guys have been uh positive towards inflation reduction proposals for TIA, but I know that uh similar ideas and there's a a newer proposal going out for uh reducing the Salana inflation rate on like an accelerated timeline. It I guess similarly is that something that you are in favor of or do the current dynamics like play to your favor still?

I mean, they play over our favor, but we've always voted yes for any inflation reduction across any chain we support. Um, like when CID228 was around, like, you know, we voted in favor of that. We want to see inflation reduced. And then also like new networks that were involved with like Fogo, we um, you know, gave some recommendations to the foundation over there for what the inflation schedule should look like. And uh we had a pretty aggressive schedule of like you know starting at six tapering down to a terminal rate of 2% within 3 years which is extremely aggressive compared to like the 15year schedule that Salam is on to get to its uh terminal rate of I believe 2% as well or it might be 1.5 but you know I'll double check on that but regardless uh and then Fogo you know ultimately just decided to start at 2% instead and just stay stay at 2%. um which I think is just like a healthy decision. Hyperlid as well has very low inflation. Uh I think any like chain that's very serious about themselves like should not be handing out free tokens.

Uh you know the like security as a meme is a very much a real thing. Um, we've never seen a network be successfully like, you know, economically attacked. Even when Luna was blowing up, that was probably the biggest chance to like, you know, uh, attack a network just given it was so cheap. Uh, and people tried and they still didn't even succeed. Um, so I think that's like probably not something to like overindex on when you're thinking about like where your token distribution should be because ultimately that's your token is incredibly important. That's your primary incentive mechanism for directing all activity on the chain and do you think to that point about like the economic security being immune? I know totally loves to say this as well, but it do you think this is people indexing to that idea or indexing to the idea of we want to have 400 validators, 500 validators because that's a that's a number we can sell, you know, in marketing materials versus if we only have 50 but they're hyper competitive. It's like not as interesting when we then get compared to Salana or Ethereum or Bitcoin. Like the number looks small.

Yeah, I think some of it was just hangover from first I guess like kind of like a lot of um ideology stem from Bitcoin and then it goes to Ethereum and then it goes to every other network. So I think the Salana people just never want it to be pointed at by the ETHs and them laughing and saying like you know like you're not decentralized blah blah blah. So there was like okay well let's have a bunch of validators and that worked well. Um but I think also now we're realizing like you don't actually need that many. Um and they can be geographically distributed and obviously like double zero is going to help out with like making sure that you don't compromise on performance for like geographically distributed validators which ultimately I do think is a good thing. Um but like raw number of validators being like a metric that should be important to your network is probably largely a scop. Um, I don't think there's like a perfect number for any network really. Like even like Ethereum.

Um, you know, it doesn't really I I don't think that's a core idea. I think it was more like anyone should be able to do it and I think it was a lot cheaper at the early days in Ethereum. That that's kind of why that ideology I think then stemmed out. Um, and then you have other networks like Monad like Monad's you know delegation program uh incentivized ge geographically distributed validators. So like on test net we were in Australia now we're in like North America for mainet um and they're still like cranking out like 400 millisecond blocks. Um which is you know right in line with Salana's performance. Um but yeah I think these are the kind of things it's important not to like overindex on.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. I guess if you you could look forward and to a a world where even if there's you know like multiple concurrent proposers and they're kind of distributed around the world on like um you know maybe you actually only have you know one node that's sort of like at each major city or country around the world and therefore maybe there's only like 200 validators or so. Um or maybe you have a few kind of like individuals competing for that for that slot in that nation or city. Um it looks quite a bit different than having like you know 2,00 nodes but effectively the performance might be the same or better.

Yeah. Like MCL is very much like the antidote to that as well. Like if you can take away the monopoly of any one validator having um you know oversight on producing any block at any given time. Uh, I think that like kind of just generally levels the playing field uh and you know kind of cuts through a lot of the the worries and edge cases that um you know the arm armchair generals like to point out on Twitter. Um but yeah.

Yeah, I think that makes sense. We we've seen a lot of uh I don't know ideologies have remained firm but a lot of the like action taken has has definitely shifted in a particular direction. Like I think the Ethereum everyone should be able to run it on a Raspberry Pi idea is like slowly falling out of favor there. Um, and like you're saying, like we're seeing on Salana certainly as well, like there's been some reduction in the amount of nos. There's been reduction in the amount of like incentives to just have a consistently high number of like maybe they're just sort of like redundant uh, you know, incentive farmers, so to speak. Uh, so we're definitely headed in a certain direction there. So, it'll be interesting to see kind of how that continues to evolve.

Maybe getting outside of the the actual validation piece. I mean, you guys invest, trade, uh you keep up with stuff happening in DeFi. Um I guess do you have any core ideas going into like 2026? Are there particular sectors or tokens um or just themes that you are like really attracted to or you know keeping a keeping an eye on going into the next year?

Yeah, I feel like the end of this year has been kind of slow and a lot of people have been a little bit depressed in a number of ways being like, okay, like what apps have been built that we're proud of and that we can say have staying power and that feel like they've made a difference and I feel like that has been a bit lacking. Now I think that there have been some apps that actually do have staying power built this year. Whether it's ones that we need to be proud of, I'm not sure. But like I I think Pump Fun has had staying power. Like I'll be eating dinner with friends who don't work in crypto and aren't in crypto and they'll like have a Pump Fun browser pull up on their phone and just like laugh at it and like occasionally buy something on there.

Um and then I think with Hyperlid too like it has been something that like these crypto exchanges have obviously been the most profitable business within the industry for a number of years uh Binance and Coinbase etc. So I I think we have built an app that actually can make money and does have staying power. I think with lighter and other exchanges, we're going to see creativity around fees compress how much money you can make in that game. And it will be interesting. Like obviously there's enough money within crypto and enough volume within like people just speculating on Bitcoin and other crypto assets to keep that profitable, but I I wonder exactly what happens next. like it it does seem like there hasn't been quite as much interest in speculating on crypto assets that haven't produced meaningful value.

Yeah, I'm curious. I want to ask you as a followup there on Pump. I want to I want to say we had you on not this podcast but maybe Zerx Research probably several months ago now and you I think you were pretty bullish on Pump at the time. Obviously the token has not performed very well. People on the timeline are asking, is the activity fake? Who knows? Maybe some of it is. Maybe maybe the token creators are incentivized in some degree. Like we saw a bit of a rotation from pump to bonk or let's bonk for like a month, a very explicit and very jagged month. Um, so maybe there's some incentivization that happens behind the scenes that we don't see. Um, hard to say, but I'm curious what you think about like their defensibility, like the moat of their platform. Obviously, they're very like meme centric and memecoins have not been uh a very high activity asset now, like on the back half of this year since, you know, early 25 late 24.

Um, we've seen more excitement around like per like you mentioned some of the platforms do and yet platforms like you know Phantom and you know wallets and some of these like trading frontends that maybe don't necessarily index to like an asset class but just are looking to offer kind of all varieties and then people will go there and trade and it doesn't matter if it's stocks or memecoins or pers um they still capture flow regardless of kind of the the current regime. Does do you think pump needs to like expand their their like viewpoint there and and you know build a purpose product like within the within the mobile app or uh is there room for like memecoins to kind of propel them higher you know going into next year? Maybe we're just in a slump?

Yeah, I mean I think speculation will always come back. I think that pump kind of outsized the supply of these meme coins and made it too easy to make them. And when there wasn't an inflow of demand and attention, like obviously people just kept making more tokens and being happier selling them at a lower price. And I feel like that has spiraled down to now you don't see many tokens go above a million dollar market cap when it used to be several billion. um which then I think makes the whole platform less interesting and meme coins a little bit less interesting as well. Um but yeah, it's a good question. I wonder like maybe what is it that take what is it that it takes to get people just interested in being on chain. And maybe that brings flows into other forms of speculation again too. um like memecoins I pump is a tough one like you said like we don't know what amount of the volume is real and what amount of the profits are real and like I guess I don't have a reason to believe that they're fake but there also hasn't been any communication from the team nobody really understands if that like nearly $2 billion raise they did was like was that an investment into the business or was that just buying the tokens from the founders um like I don't think anyone knows whose money that is now. Is that like can the founders just cash that out or is like that going to be used to build a business? Like if that's being cashed out and all the profits are going to buy back pump like what else can they build out? And but then they made an acquisition too. So like again it's all confusing. I don't think there's been a lot of communication there.

Um I think you could make the argument that it would be silly to own Pump and sleep at night. Well, um, now I've been buying a little bit. Um, but I could I really understand like why people are uncomfortable with it and why the token verse equity rights conversation has been happening and like we saw another acquisition within space by circle recently where token holders were completely wiped out and I was like okay so you use token holders as a way to generate marketing speculation raise capital and then as soon as you want you can just walk away from them. Um, it's it's interesting. Um, I think it's it's obviously an issue that uh makes crypto businesses less interesting to invest in from like a token holder standpoint until it's fixed. Um, and is is metadata the way to do it? I don't know. I think that there's definitely some improvements there, but they're probably a ways off too. um like I I think it's a very cool um concept. But yeah, I guess if um if you had two billion in the onchain treasury, it'd be more defensible than two billion somewhere.

Somebody's got it. Uh maybe maybe the the maybe the follow-up thought is like if if you're pump like what what do you think is the right path forward? Like let's say you're operating the business and your goal is not to walk away with 2 billion and and rug the thing. Um like what do you do from here? Is it you need more acquisitions? You build out like more of a platform? Like you kind of go the like uh look look a little bit more like a Phantom or like a Robin Hood and like add more horizontal offerings or or verticalized offerings, whatever that looks like. Um, or do you lean in even heavier to like speculation first, all memes, you know, new new takes on meme trading?

Yeah, I'd be curious to hear what you think. Um, yeah, like there is like an interesting part of their user base which has not turned and it Yeah, it is mysterious. We can't we don't we don't know why that is and like if it's if it's real or not. Like we do get the occasional like random DM of like, hey, I'm launching this like on pump. And it's like, okay, like someone is still out here using this. Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm I'm not entirely sure. Like it it is also interesting with their onchain activity. Like they did have like a billion dollars of USC sitting in their in their treasury or I don't really know if you can call it treasury. there's like a multi-IG associated with the pawn fund entity on Arkham and that's now down to around like 400 million uh since like roughly mid November. So I mean I'd be curious why they're sending $600 million to Kraken. Um like are they you know are they going to announce an acquisition? Are they using this to fund operations? It's not entirely clear. Like again to like Teddy's point, like there's just such like a lack of um understanding and and calms from the team which has always been like a issue for them. Like there was like a uh you know kind of supposed to be like I guess like a communications channel for them and I don't think that's taken off yet.

Um and so like their their biggest strength honestly outside of any product focused things could just be like tell us what you're thinking. Otherwise, we're just gonna try to sit here and like look through a crystal ball and guess like what they actually are doing. But I mean, there's there's a team there. They're very competent obviously like they've built a, you know, multi-million dollar revenue product which is incredibly hard to do. Like they're clearly not idiots. Like just tell us what you're doing. And I think like the market would reward that immediately. Um I don't think it can be too bearish at this point either. like you know like um I don't know like the only things that we can really know is like what we see on chain and what we've seen on chain with them is like they they are using like 100% revenue to buy back their token. They own about 15% of the circulating supply. They spent over $200 million doing this. Um so we'd like to hope that whatever the ambitions of the team are are greater than whatever they've spent this uh amount of buybacks on. like, you know, hopefully there there's a product out there that's going to continue to help this. Um, I think the one that was rumored for a long time was like Axiom acquisition, but I don't entirely know if that was ever really legit or if it was just people like kind of connecting dots and trying to like read the tea leaves. But yeah, my my Christmas wish is the Pump Fund Fund team tells us what they want to do and what they're going to do and people can appropriately price their

Yeah, I I think that's fair. I I do think uh Axiom rumors were probably a bit overexited. I I want to say that at the time like an Axiom acquisition probably would have cost them a bit too much given I think they were kind of operating at relatively similar run rates on re on the revenue side. I think that's maybe a little bit different today. Um but you know and they acquired Padre like a a sort of similar product offering uh in the time since I guess yeah to your point communication probably a big piece there. I do think there's probably still plenty of opportunity for them to like expand this product into more of a platform. I do think one of the big the other big question mark like outside of just what what are they thinking is um you know whether or not you believe that there'll always be speculation it it doesn't necessarily mean that uh you know memecoin trading is going to go to new highs next year uh might it might never go to new highs again or it might take a few years and before it kind of sees a silly speculation boom like like last time.

Um, so maybe they need to expand, maybe they do need to offer per, maybe they need to offer prediction markets, um, XYZ other thing, right? There's lots of money that could be made if they've got organic users that have not turned from the platform uh, that they can monetize. So, and we've seen, you know, like the Axioms and the Phantoms and the Rabbies, like they're all leaning into this. Uh, Coinbase as well, uh, they're all just looking to offer as many of these products as possible because they see the monetization opportunities. uh and they have existing users that they think they can convert some portion of. So, uh probably would make sense for Perf Pump as well to kind of expand their horizons, especially with so much cash if they're uh assuming they're willing to use it for those purposes. Streaming streaming.

Yeah. I don't know. I think again the the lack of messaging and the I think the lack of like mission around streaming was interesting, too. They're like, "There's this thing streaming. It's big and we could do it." Um, I was like, "Yeah, maybe there's some overlap where it was kind of funny to have people that were buying these tokens also be streaming." Like, there's a big world where people go to casinos and stream themselves playing table games. Um, and I think there is significant eyes on that. So, um, maybe there is a thesis behind it, but it was never like really well talked about. um or executed on. Um so it's all been just kind of funny back and forth like they announce something and then they disappear for five months and then announce something and it's just tough to do that after you raised a couple billion dollars. Um but yeah, I think uh it's they get this level of scrutiny being or having been one of the kind of the largest raises, one of the mo most sort of valuable projects that's kind of the the spotlight gets put on you in that way. I think you know we sort of see the same for projects like Hyperlid for example, right? they're constantly put into question, you know, are team is the team selling um just because it's it becomes like the darling or like the the top kind of performer of the asset class and then people start asking a lot of questions when it that becomes not the case uh for a time period. Um so I I think it's it's sort of natural to expect that that would happen with pump given just how massive their their raise was and how limited their comps have been since then.

Um we can shift away from that though. I guess maybe it would be interesting to talk about um I mean we can talk you know we mentioned per a little bit. Um there is a little bit of this like you know hyperlquid versus you know now lighter coming into the fold and potential uh TGE coming up here soon. Um a lot of question marks and like combiveness over you know hype has the one true model. they put all the money in the token versus, you know, lighter zero fees. It's fake wash volume. Um, I don't know. Do you guys have a strong view here? Are you expressing a view in any way going into a lighter token or are you hype hype individuals um or or kind of on the sidelines here?

I think generally I'm hyper liquid biased. Um, I I think if you were going to build like a perex as well, you probably want to do it as a standalone chain. Um, I think that's probably the best way to do it and I think that's why they've, you know, succeeded as they have. Um, I think the team has been like I think Jeff has just been like a pretty good communicator since the start as well. like I think he also just kind of instills trust in in people in terms of uh lighter like it's I do believe it's like zero fees in their front end and then they charge fees for API access. Um so I yeah I don't really have like any informed opinion on like their volume and whether it's real or not. I think generally speaking a lot of volume in crypto is fake. Um, and people are always paying to get volume on exchanges, and I'm sure like a portion of the high product volume is quote unquote fake. Um, I don't think volume itself is like a very like uh high signal metric. Um, I think obviously like Hyperoka took a big hit in terms of open interest on 1010 as most venues did. And then we'll see I guess like you know how much um like momentum lighter is able to carry through after their after their token launch. Um I think that's kind of the ultimate test right now because I think a lot of people were just kind of farming it was like you know look how successful Hyperlood was. Uh but then again like I'm not like you know actually using lighter so I really don't have like a really super informed opinion on the product itself either.

I tend to think that fee compression will be real and especially with per too. Like