Stablecoin Deep Dive with Frax and Transak

I'm up the [ __ ] I'm above the JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. You said it. You finally said it. So boys, boys, I'm bullish. We're boys. How about the I'm the mother back. High above the mother is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. We're on fourth floor today. We're going to be on floor one and then we're headed straight to the moon, boys. We're live. Boom. Boom. Happy happy Wednesday. I'm forgetting what day of the week it is. Wednesday indeed. I'm on island time. You're on in Hawaii. All you got is the sound of the waves. Every day is a day that ends in Y. Waves coming in, coming out. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Out there, dude. My Twitter timeline is cooked, man. It's like, here we go. GameStop, $4 in credit. Okay. Okay. Okay. Crypto stuff. Crypto stuff. Okay. So, it's better on this computer for some reason. Oh, here we go. sequence of photos of Rosie Huntington Whitley and Jason Statham. Don't care. Like, it's so weird. It's like all these random stuff. Oh, somebody got shot uh by an ICE agent. Like, what the [ __ ] man? What happened to Twitter, man? Is that your for you page or is that the people you follow? It's the for you page. What happened to Twitter, man? The for you page is always cooked, isn't it?

Welcome back to Rollup TV. We're doing a stable coin deep dive with Sam Casmian and Sammy Start from uh Frax and Transak. Uh we're going to do FRA first, talk about some of the recent happenings uh with the geopolitical environment, I think. Um and then get some updates on stable coins and that sort of realm and then Transak is more around payments. It's a fresh uh 10:00 a.m. here in Hawaii.

Yeah, it's about 3. Happy birthday to Rob over here in Florida. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Happy birthday, Rob. Let's go. Oh, yeah. Um, we're gonna have some fun. Might eat some sushi tonight. Let's have a good time.

Sushi. We've got uh sushi. Uh, funny story actually. Last time we were in New York. Um, the sushi restaurant in town here used to be the best sushi restaurant in Florida. surprising for Gainesville, but really good sushi restaurant. By total coincidence, went to a sushi restaurant. There's a million sushi restaurants in New York. Went to a sushi restaurant 10 years ago. He was the sushi chef he was wearing a Gator hat. So we say go Gators. And so he was the sushi chef at the restaurant in Gainesville 10 years ago. Total coincidence. We went guy gave us a nice just was just serving up sushi just on the house. gave us a salad, couple sushi rolls on the house. Great guy. Shout out Jeff Miller. Shout out Chef Jeff upfella. Rosella in Soho, New York City. We will see you again, Chef Jeff.

All right, we got about 15 minutes until our our our boy Sam comes on. Let's rip through some of the um uh latest happenings and news pieces that we wanted to cover today. Uh we're still kind of catching up on the 2026 news cycle. It feels like it's happening so fast. Oh yeah. Um Twitter timeline's cooked. We got to create our own timeline. Let's uh let's see what we got running. Yeah, the Twitter timeline is is is pretty cooked. Um yeah, I don't I mean I I still feel like I haven't even caught up on 2026 news cycle yet. It's January 7th. Venezuela. This is like syllabus week in work. It's like Yeah. Feels like everyone's trying to just getting back circling up with you. You know, we'll book a call next week. That's a good analogy. Vibe. That's a good analogy. It's silly week right now. I saw some tweet about it.

All right. So, it's not the timeline's not entirely cooked. Leo, let's get something up on the show. All right. According to rwa.xyz, Canton blockchain has 95% market share of represented RWAs, $382 billion of assets. Sorry, just one asset. You've never heard of Canton repurchase agreements on Broadidge DLR. I'm not even going to even try to explain what is Canton. You've never heard of Canton. It's a glorified database. Why? Presumably there are as much RWA there. You can mint whatever amount. Frankly, I'm surprised there is so little. And what are these represented RWA? Think useless. Suffice to say, this is as useless and confusing a metric as it can get. If this is what we mean by the RWA revolution, then I guess this is not what I signed up for. Working in the space, we can do better. Second to Canton is none other than the other blockchain that you've never heard of, dude.

Yeah. I mean, this is the problem with RWAs, right? is like uh you you like there's all this push back about tokenization and about what is even being represented and it is confusing and like it it the RWX was these guys do a good job of showing what's happening but like I if you look at this it's like how so they got 8,000 R 8693 RWAS total value is 382 billion market share 95% but yeah nobody knows like what that even is um so I'm kind of with Bartk on this one like what is Canton and like what are these RWAs and and and repurchase agreements on Broadidge DLR?

So if you scroll down I think the comments get pretty spicy here. Um actually it might be a screenshot but uh Canton has been obviously making a ton of partnerships. Uh they partner with DTCC uh the digital trust clearing house or not digital but the clearing house that clears 99% of stocks. Uh Sam Casmian stablecoin genius is going to be coming on and he can tell us more but we know that they are partnering with NASDAQ. They're partnering with DTC. They have all these really strong partnerships and so they've got institutional connections in the space. But as far as like our web three cryptonative mind is just struggling to comprehend what can be doing and why they could be getting all of this adoption.

I'll tell you right now my understanding is that can C canon and why a lot of these other uh institutional companies and institutions like Canton is because it's permissioned. And this is part of a trend that I anticipate will continue to evolve and develop, which is that the institutional incumbents where 99% of financial activity takes place right now on Wall Street, they like the idea of blockchain. They like that a lot of people are very excited about it and people are coming on and they're they're getting engaged in their finance, but they're not going to embrace the freespirited ethos that we know and we love. These guys, they want control over the chain. They want to be able to roll it back. They want interoperability with the Black Rocks and Fidelities and Vanguards. They don't want interoperability or composability with Scroll, Scroll, and Tornado Cash.

And so, we're going to see this segmentation where it's in it's open, it's interoperable, it's a big kumbaya if you have a seat at the table. And I think that is what is happening right now in the Canton validator network as you see more you know institutions come on and they run val these super validators on Canton. You have to have a seat at the table if you want to play with the big guys and Canton is kind of setting the table right now.

Yeah. I mean, I I think Bartekch comes from a very fundamental um technical background and very much like analyzing the ins and outs of everything and so I can understand why this grinds his gears to be honest. Uh it is a it is a it's gear grinding material right here. Uh knowing that uh the way that we count RWA I think yeah you know it it's gonna get changed. Um, and I think that people are kind of misunderstanding the whole value prop here. And yeah, I mean, $382 billion of assets. Sorry, just one asset kind of tells it to you straight. So, Bartchk, keep fighting the good fight, man. It's all gonna it's all going to work out for you. Um, Canon's gonna Canon's gonna keep dominating, though, I think. And um, what's that? That token was looking pretty good uh for for a little while. I don't know what's what it's doing now.

Which one? Canton. Yeah, it's Yeah, they've had a lot of strong partnerships. I Yeah, I also I'm not an expert. I haven't dug particularly deep into Canton's architecture, but my understanding is that it's also not really a blockchain just like Providence. Like these are essentially ledgers and databases and they allow like imagine a piece of technology. I don't know exactly what you would call this, but imagine tokenization and smart contracts that allow you to compute over these tokens. Yep. But it's not a blockchain. And so you kind of have this like this like interoperable set of databases and ledgers and you're kind of able to like share state a little bit and you're not, you know, you prevent double counting. Yeah. And you kind of have this this idea of consensus, this notion of consensus because you do have validators. Yep. But there's really Yeah. It's not a blockchain. It's not a blockchain. It's not a blockchain.

And so we're we're going to learn more about this because I think, you know, you can fight this or you can realize that like this is the way the space is moving and NASDAQ DT like this thing is not going anywhere. If anything, we're going to see more and more of these neo finance nonblockchain systems emerge. So, while Bartik does have kind of a a good take here, and I think, you know, he's calling out some important uh mistakes in the way that we do count TVL and RWAs and the way that we're structuring these things. It's not apples to apples like Canton versus ZK Sync is apples to oranges. Yeah, I agree.

All right, moving on from Bartekch. Um, thank you Bartchek for your contribution to today's show from the L2B team. Um, yeah, so we we've got a pretty scary chart here. Violent attacks against crypto investors per year by severity. Um, so the the trend here is the blue is like the most severe possible attack and the green at the bottom is the least uh severe of the attack. So, like the way this is ranked is like the green is like um maybe somebody tries to like punch you and take your your backpack or steals your backpack or like tries to do nonviolent crime. And then the blue is like you get kidnapped and your thumbs get cut off. And then like everything in between there is uh kind of on the sliding scale. And and the scary thing is that if you see this has only just accelerated since 2020. And the other scary thing is that the dark orange into the maroon red kind of just gets bigger since 2023. Bigger bigger bigger. And the blue gets bigger too. And so rule one of crypto prioritize OBSAC rule two of cryptoc rule one.

Yeah, I mean I must say having way less like onchain and like just not having the same setup as I've had in the past after this past year ended. I feel so much better about OPSSE and just this type of stuff. And knock on wood here. Stay stay safe guys. But yeah, this is a worries like this is a bit of a worrying chart. And you know, my take here is that well, you just got to stay, you know, you have to have OBSC, you have to obviously, you know, listen to what GSR is saying. Um, but I also like don't think it's that big of a deal because if you really look into the cases, yeah, it's freaking people that are like self-proclaimed crypto king of Ontario, Canada, that get wrecked or like it's the people that are like driving the Lambos and like flexing on everybody and like or it's the people that have like scammed their way to the top and like have given people a reason to [ __ ] And then then there's the rare cases of like the Ledger CEO who probably people went after him because of all the data breaches where there's like so my thing is like there's always a reason for these people that get in trouble. It's either excessive flaunting or braggadocious behavior or they've screwed somebody over and then on the very very small side of the spectrum you've got bad luck.

I only have one more I I think all that is true Andy and I I only have one more thing to add which is that the way this chart is counting attacks is is raw numbers and the raw number of crypto investors has gone up year-over-year since 2020. Correct. Yes. And so I would I would have liked to see this as a relative basis. Right. Of the number of crypto investors, what proportion of them are getting attacked? M is that number going up or is it just we're going up and it's actually going up in in in you know relation to the number of investors that are going I hear you I think did a a post on that as well and he did see that it was indeed um related to the increase in crypto investor count.

So anyway moving on from OBSC uh just a friendly reminder from us at Rollup TV to stay safe. Um, we've got the payment scan XYZ, a new website that I've found yesterday. Um, I don't know how I didn't see this up till now, but it's showing here. I think this is like an important website in the fry in the Neo Finance category. So, if you think about Neo Finance, it it's pretty clear that payments is a big part of it and these neo banks. And so in this chart, what what you can see here is that yeah, EtherFi is absolutely dominating uh in terms of total payments. Then you got Cipher, Ready, um Nosis, and a couple of others. And like the names of the people that are dominating don't really matter. The trend that we're betting on with the roll up for 2026 and beyond is that this chart is going to just continue to go hockey stick. Like the chart is absolutely flying. Like forget about who's winning. We're touching a hundred million dollar months for the first time December. Obviously Q4 is big spending. We'll see if that keeps up in uh Q1. I doubt it, but I anticipate this to just keep firing away. And so yeah, this is this is a massive part of the NEO finance thesis and and I think this is something that we had had to cover today.

Yeah, I like it. Let's scroll down a little bit because we do segment by chain. We've got Solana cards. We've got a comparison of top. Let's see a comparison of top cards there. Okay. And so we've sort of got this breakdown of Visa versus Mastercard as far as the provider. And then we've got, you know, what kind of cash back we're looking at. Yep. Um I also believe that um in the U a lot of this is outside of the US when it comes to cash back. we've still got sort of this Genius Act overhang of can we give rebates, can we give revenue back to some of these people and so I would anticipate that cash back you're going to end up seeing a lot more um I'd imagine and I you know it it takes time to work through some of the partnerships like think about AMX right lounges perks travel hotels it takes time to work through all of those perks and work through partnerships with with each of those providers ers. So, I'd imagine that, you know, we're going to get more and more benefits as these things gain in popularity. They're going to get network effects, more perks, more partnerships is going to end up bringing more card providers and then we're going to get this flywheel.

I also think that payments is ripe for M&A and so I would not be surprised if we saw some sort of merger acquisition play of some of the names that we see here. ready right from Argent. Yeah. And and if we saw one of the major card providers merge with one of these crypto native card providers ultimately bring bringing together a more uh full stack experience. Yeah, I just wanted to highlight this because I thought that payment scan was pretty interesting. Um and yeah, I think this is a a site that we'll keep coming back to because I think it shows really good data. uh data dashboards on X is what the what this user's handle is. So all right guys, we're gonna get we're we're gonna get our first episode of Stabled Up 2026 ready to go next. So we got Sam, the founder of Frax, ready to go in the back. He's going to get fired up. We're going to do Stabled Up episode uh f the first episode of of 2026. I believe we're on episode 15 or 16 now. So guys, quick quick pause, quick break, and we'll be right back with Stabled Up and get firing with Sam. See you in a second.

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Welcome back to another episode of Stabled Up, our premiier weekly show covering the ins and outs of digital dollars, stable coins, and the future of decentralized finance. Show is made possible by FRA, and FRA is powering the financial engine of the internet, powering FRXUSD and genius compliant stable coins. This is the stablecoin super cycle, made possible by FRA. Now enjoy stabled up, our weekly stable coin show.

All righty, guys. Welcome back to episode 15 of Stabled Up, our weekly premier stablecoin show with our lovely friends at Frack. Today we have Sam, the CEO and co-founder of Fracks to kick us off for 2026 first episode of Stable Up. Happy New Year, Sam. Happy New Year to you guys, too. Uh it's good to be back. Uh first full week of 2026, right?

Yeah. I told I told Rob it feels like um syllabus week this week, which was like the first week when you're back in college and it's kind of like, you know, you're getting your syllabus. everyone's like circling up, you know, let's schedule a call, let's circle up. And so it's kind of getting back into the motions here.

Yeah, definitely. And and then there's uh there's a lot of things in Q1. I think that uh people, especially us at FRA, but I'm I'm sure we're not the only ones uh that have signed these deals, exclusive deals, and they're all like, let's not go public with it, uh you know, right before Christmas and and and stuff like that. And I think uh that really applies to the stable coin payments and uh DeFi space because even even though we have a bunch of huge stuff to roll out, I think we're not the only ones and I expect to see a lot of uh big rumblings especially from what I've been hearing.

Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting times and we've we've been thinking a lot about this even over the holidays thinking about how you know what coming into 2026 what what are some of the trends and narratives to watch out for and stable coins payments obviously are going to be a really really important part of this new uh what we're calling Neo finance which is sort of this this evolution of we're kind of like leaving behind the legacy crypto infrastructure era leaving behind legacy finance and you know traditional banks and that sort of thing and and kind of these two things are converging in this neo bank sort of world. Stable coins payments are really important piece of that. What are some of the things that you sort of ended off 2025 on? When you're looking ahead to 26, like what are what are some of the big stroke ideas that you're excited about?

Yeah, I I think 2025 was I obviously the the the Genius year uh with legislation and stuff, but it was a building year for uh a lot of the industry, but us at Fracks, but also institutions that were like, "Okay, let's get something started. Let's actually uh get teams, the digital asset team, uh sign deals and things like that I think 2026 is the hockey stick year especially for uh people institutions projects products that have laid the foundation. Um basically a lot of these things they were just getting started right and so if you look at you know the classic hockey stick chart of like startups right it's very very very slow right and it's linear and then there's like an inflection point that literally turns it exponential right and I think 2026 is the year of the exponential I think hib had this like long post uh the exponential he mainly me meant it for like the uh L1 stuff it was like a monadentric post But I think there will be a few breakouts in 2026 in the stable coin space and the NEO finance that's a good category name uh that you guys have that um I think obviously FRA and FRAUSD will be one of those I have my eyes on a few.

I think also just from in terms of partnerships that I can uh talk about like I think Stripe, Bridge and Tempo. So like we're very uh big partners with with Bridge. They're actually working on uh full orchestration uh internally with FRAUSD as well. There aren't that many stable coins that uh directly you can just do it. Usually you have to go through like USDC and USDB uh in in their systems. And so this is one of those uh and we have a really big uh use case that we're going to uh announce publicly in Q1 that I think is um no one else has uh this particular use case. So, it'll be really exciting to um you know, highlight that once we're able to go public with it. And so, the important thing is these big integrations that finally come together with uh a few of these large companies.

is we're also on on Tempo building for for the uh day one uh genesis of of the chain um with their new technology and FRAUSD will be there with um flywheel uh tokconomics yield streaming um bringing that uh famous DeFi type of uh economics as well as the T- bill underlying uh reward system using Tempo's own TIP20. Uh it's actually really really cool system. um Dan Robinson and those guys over there have uh really cooked in terms of how the the tech stack there works. So, it's a few of these things hitting uh critical mass and it's it's uh it's going to be a few projects, right? And I'm looking and I have some some opinions on uh who else it's going to be and I think by the end of Q1 people will see kind of who will will dominate the next six months.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think this like this neo finance category is like this this convergence point where legacy finance companies and cryptonative companies meet. You know, we had Mike uh Mike Novagratz uh the Galaxy CEO talking about a shift from these narrative driven tokens to business driven tokens uh with measurable value and profits. you know, expecting this general structural transformation where wallets and exchanges may evolve into these neo bank type platforms. You know, you've got uh this kind of new super set of fintech where got these very easy to use consumer frontends, DeFi backends, business driven tokens, institutional bids for these kind of D5 blue chips with sensible value acrruel. you know, there's this focus on this persistent buybacks, financial discipline, transparency, openness. Um, and and yeah, it just seems like these stable coins, RWAs, lending, asset management, vaults, these types of categories kind of leading this this year's charge like like it it it's like this evolution of DeFi and it's really like this uh convergence point.

And I think a great example is exactly what you've said with with this or orchestration work that you guys are doing with Stripe and Bridge is again like this this kind of convergence where it's like you got this Chad Neo finance versus like the Virgin high float low FTV L1 with no kind of like you know product market fit, not a lot of use case act activity and then you've got a lot of differing opinions. Um but you know our through line this year is definitely that this general sector and there's a lot of kind of like subsectors tokenization stable coins payments vaults neo banks cards uh etc right um issuers right these all these little subsectors of this broader idea we think is going to be the uh the biggest area of growth and interest this year um so so passing back to you with this context in mind also with your kind road map in mind. Do you have any predictions, any personal predictions for 2026, whether it be for fracks, for stable coins, or just generally like further how you see like what core themes you see really happening this year?

Yeah, for sure. Definitely. I think that there's like two two main uh parts to it. One is I think this year is going to be the year of unification. Um and and there's multiple uh ways to describe it. one is the economics of tokens or equity or equity like tokens whether they're buyback burns. I think uh you know putting aside the stable coin products and and and stuff for a second I think everyone uh saw you know the um a clarification governance proposals the um other things of like you know does does a token have IP and and all these things. Um, is there, you know, one token? Is there multiple like the subdow model and and all these things? Do do burns and buybacks actually work? Uh, you know, there's a lot of posts I saw that um, you know, people are like, look, everything uh, the altcoin space didn't have that as as good of a, you know, 2025 as people thought. Even the ones like Pomp and others that are like buying back and burning, you know, millions of dollars uh, every few days.

I think it's going to be the year of unification in the sense like all this stuff is going to get clarified. All this stuff is gonna um for the good tokens, right? Like for example with the the FRA token it does represent the entire intellectual property of like the FRA DAO and and all these things and we have have always said these these things and they it gets the entire uh income there there's no uh there's no uh labs entity which usually I actually described you know unis swap as an example and then they fixed it and then the major major props to unis swap in fact unification proposal and I I think I want to say that this is the year of uh a lot of important tokens that will do well uh you know investments that will do well will have this kind of uh clarification whether they do buybacks all the time or whether the buyback or it will all be unified and clarified right and and I think those are the most important things so I'm I'm like glad that uh the a DAO is uh taking care of that um unis swap major props to them uh the good thing is with fracks we've always been very clear uh one token one vision um one mission and uh that I think that that's one of my predictions.

The the best tokens will have um clarification on the product side. I actually think that there's going to be um products that are endto end which means like the the products that actually the stable coin products that have full integration and payments in in neo banks and have use cases in the real world and have onchain uh liquidity holders and and growth. they will be the ones that have a a breakout uh and and so for example, you know, Athena is really really big onchain and I'm interested to see what they what they do offchain. for Lacfra USD. Uh we actually have a a really big partnership uh proposal going through a governance right now and I can talk about it because it's public. And so we have this unique uh risk-free yield streaming system into uh a so that lenders actually earn uh a lot more by by lending FRAUSD and then borrowers it's cheaper because the lenders are getting more so borrowers have to pay less. And then we've done a lot of work with Mark and uh and and and the ACI uh group to make sure that FRAUSD's settings are identical to the big two USDT and USDC the the emote settings the collateral settings the reserve factor all of these things so that all things being constant which they are we we've worked with them on uh then it is objectively better this genius compatible stable coin that is redeemable is a digital dollar why wouldn't this become the the economic engine of lenders and borrowers in A. And then obviously with A's V4 release, we're also uh discussing things um big there with them as as well. And then this is just the onchain stuff. There's a bunch of offchain things that you guys uh know that that we're working on.

I think the end to end is is what is the most important. I'm really interested to see what products are endtoend. If a stable coin is just in, you know, uh, payments, but it has literally no holders, no use cases onchain, I don't think that that it's going to be a big year for them. If a stable coin is only onchain and it is only, for example, a looping stable coin or something like that, I'm not really sure if that's a hockey stick year for them in the size that it is for things that are endtoend. And there's actually a good uh analogy that I I was just thinking of the other day with this and I know Kyle Smani hates analogies, but I think this this one is actually very apt because if you guys uh know about like Whimo and Tesla's uh FSD um I was actually looking at listening to Andre Kbotki on on a podcast and and he said uh most people don't know this but Whimo uh actually has a human in the loop there. there's a 5G connection and then they use maps and additional modules for Whimo self-driving and it is not purely se self-contained endtoend uh in and of itself and so uh if you guys saw the news a few weeks ago there was a huge power outage in SF and a bunch of these Whimos were literally like stopped in the middle of the street because people couldn't connect the the Whimo employees couldn't connect to them or beam in and then also uh their GPS and stuff was was off but then Tesla which is entirely self-contained it's an on uh on chip on on vehicle AI chip with cameras and direct reasoning, right? There's no internet connection. It entirely is uh self-contained full loop. Um they were totally fine.

And so uh I think that this is an interesting thing because Tesla built something that's scalable end to end and it's extremely valuable. Even though it looks kind of similar to to Whimo, the the Whimo model doesn't seem to be, at least from what I understand, to be as scalable and uh it's actually much wider distance between like Tesla and Whimo than people think. And so what I was looking at is how are these stable coins actually used? Is it is it end to end from offchain, onchain, uh DeFi utility? Is there an actual uh utility in every single layer or no? Do you have to swap to USDC to like, you know, at checkout or like on Coinbase or do you have to uh swap to USDT because you it doesn't people don't accept it in the geographic region you're you're in or no is this thing fully endtoend an actual digital dollar with utility onchain offchain in the neo banking layer and it's difficult to do right because usually you start in one place and then you have one niche and then you sort of start expanding uh and you have to expand to the right layer. Otherwise you won't uh in my prediction this year you won't get that hockey stick growth. So for me I think it's the year of unification uh when it comes to investments economics and and price action and then it's the year of endtoend scalable integrations which the neo finance layer actually solves and finally connects to the real world.

Phenomenal answer. Makes a ton of sense. And I think one way to think about this unification process and this fully end-to-end model, this full stack model that you're talking about is is verticalization. And we hear a lot about this especially as we were kind of coming from this modular world kind of like encroaching upon monolithic. And so I guess FRA as an example here, does this unification, this verticalization of the stack, does this mean you guys, you know, are pursuing like a neo bank to augment the stable coin, the frack USD stable coin that you guys have? Or how how when you were looking