Marc & Ben on New Media: Podcasts, Politics & the Collapse of Trust

This episode unpacks the structural collapse of legacy media and the rise of a new, drama-fueled playbook for influence, revealing why Crypto AI leaders must master direct communication to control their narrative in an era of collapsing trust.

The Structural Decay of Legacy Media

• Economic Collapse: The internet, particularly platforms like Craigslist, decimated the classified advertising revenue that was a primary pillar for newspapers. Marc notes this took out roughly a third of their revenue, especially for local papers whose business models supported even national publications like The New York Times.
• Oversupply and Subscale Operations: The internet dissolved the barriers between different media formats (local TV, national news, newspapers, magazines), creating a hyper-competitive environment. Instead of a few scaled players, the market now has dozens of "subscale" news organizations competing for the same audience, making it economically irrational. Marc points out, "Why does CBS News and CNN have separate reporting staffs? ... It doesn't make any sense."
• Technological Stagnation: Marc recalls how union rules at major publications, like one requiring a full-time employee to hand-build all servers at the Wall Street Journal, created institutional inertia. Ben Horowitz adds that these collective bargaining agreements often assume a fixed technology set, making them "very incompatible with technological change" and hindering the ability of these businesses to adapt.

From Reporting to "Moral Clarity"

• The Rise of Ideology: Journalism moved from objective reporting to a more activist stance, a trend that accelerated with the internet. Ben notes that the intense competition for readers led to a sharp decline in the "standard of truth," with many outlets prioritizing narrative over facts, effectively becoming "TMZ or the National Enquirer."
• The Conflict at the Core of Journalism: Marc highlights the inherent contradiction between the stated principles of journalism. On one hand, there is the ideal of objectivity. On the other, there are activist mottos like "speak truth to power" and "comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable." He argues these goals are fundamentally different and that the activist mission has increasingly overridden business judgment and objectivity, leading to political alignment.

The 2017 Turning Point: A Shift to Hostility

• "Naked Hostility": Marc describes the new environment as one of "naked hostility. Like just flat out naked. We hate you." He recounts a dinner with a high-profile journalist who began by declaring all tech companies frauds and then refused to speak for three hours.
• The Demand for Censorship: The political activation around the Trump election and the Facebook/Cambridge Analytica narrative created a new dynamic. Marc recalls an "out-of-body experience" where top tech reporters, historically defenders of free speech, were "absolutely appalled that Facebook was not censoring more." This marked a profound ideological reversal.
• The False Narrative: Ben adds context, explaining that Facebook's internal investigation, led by former Chief Security Officer Alex Stamos, found effectively "nothing" to support the Russian hacking narrative. The reality was that the Trump campaign was simply far more effective at using the platform than the Clinton campaign, but the "dominant media narrative" became fact for much of the public.

The Collapse of Authority: Martin Gurri's Thesis

• Authority as an Artifact of Centralization: Gurri argues that authoritative institutions (government, media, universities) and credentialed experts are artifacts of a top-down, centralized media era. These institutions project an image of being "right 100% of the time" to maintain their authority.
• Social Media as an "X-ray Machine": Marc explains Gurri's core insight: "The social media is many things, but one of the things it is is it's an X-ray machine." It exposes the flaws, mistakes, and imperfections of these institutions and experts to a mass audience, going viral in a way that was previously impossible.
• The Inevitable Collapse of Trust: This transparency inevitably erodes public trust, as people realize these institutions are not infallible. Marc points to Gallup polls showing a decades-long slide, and a recent cliff-like drop, in public trust for nearly every major institution, from universities to the press to the medical profession.

The New Playbook: Trump, Drama, and Direct Communication

• Training in Drama: Ben argues that Trump’s unique style comes from his background in reality television and professional wrestling. Unlike professional politicians trained to avoid controversy, his training was to "create drama" and be "as interesting as possible and as controversial as possible."
• Authenticity over Polish: This playbook prioritizes authenticity (or the appearance of it) over the polished, media-trained messaging of traditional politicians. Trump’s unfiltered, often misspelled tweets felt direct and real to his audience, a stark contrast to the staff-written posts of other leaders.
• Strategic Implications for Crypto AI: This shift signals a new reality for leaders. The public now rewards direct, unscripted, and personality-driven communication. For Crypto AI founders, who often deal with complex and easily misrepresented technology, adopting a direct, authentic communication style is no longer optional but a strategic necessity for building trust and community.

Life, The Movie: When Reality Outperforms Fiction

• Non-Fiction Beats Fiction: Gabler’s central argument is that in a hyper-competitive media landscape, real-life, high-stakes drama is inherently more compelling than scripted fiction. Stories like the O.J. Simpson trial or the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, with their unbelievable twists and real-world consequences, captivate audiences in a way movies cannot.
• The Rise of Cinematic Universes: This has led to our current state, where public life is a series of real-life "cinematic universes"—the "Trump cinematic universe," the "COVID cinematic universe"—that people can immerse themselves in 24/7. Marc notes, "Reality is stranger and more wild and it's inherently unpredictable and by the way the stakes are higher."

The Rise of the Long-Form Podcast

• The Barbell Effect: Marc dismisses the cliché that attention spans are collapsing. Instead, he describes a "barbell effect" in media consumption: audiences gravitate to either very short-form content (like TikTok) or very long-form content, like three-hour podcasts from Joe Rogan or Lex Fridman. The middle—the 20-minute TV segment—is dying.
• Hunger for Real Discussion: Long-form podcasts succeed because they offer what legacy media cannot: deep, nuanced, and unfiltered conversations. They allow guests to "fully articulate a point of view" without being cut off by a commercial break or a "gotcha" question.
• A New Threshold for Leadership: This format is creating a new, unstated requirement for public figures. Marc asks if the new threshold for leadership is the ability to "go on a long-form podcast and talk for three hours and be interesting." This is a skill that traditional media training does not provide and that many incumbent leaders lack.

Strategic Takeaways for Crypto AI Leaders

• Go Direct: The primary strategy must be to "go direct" to your audience. Ben states, "I think there's no reason to like tell your primary story through the press. I think that's very dangerous." Founders must build their own media capabilities to control their narrative.
• The Founder is the Brand: In an era of institutional distrust, people connect with individuals, not corporations. The founder's personal voice and public presence are critical for recruiting, customer acquisition, and raising capital. As Ben notes, people want to hear from Brian Armstrong, not the Coinbase handle.
• Invest in Your Media Capability: Building a direct media presence is no longer a "nice to have" but a core business function. This means investing in high-quality talent and developing the skills to communicate your vision authentically and directly to the world.

Conclusion

The collapse of centralized media trust has created a new arena for influence. For Crypto AI leaders, this is a pivotal moment. Mastering the new playbook of direct, authentic, and long-form communication is now essential for building community, navigating public perception, and defining the future of a decentralized world.