LayerZero Chain Launch, BTC Treasury Co Updates, RockawayX Founder Calls In, Then Messari Research

I'm about the How about JP Morgan, Black Rock, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions. It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say.

Bush. You said it. You finally said it. So bullish is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. I'm about the H the back of the above the back. I'm The rollup is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. We're on fourth floor today. We're going to be on floor one and then we're headed straight to the moon, boys.

Go back. Bouncy ball season. What do you mean bouncy ball season?

I mean, Hyperliquid bounces up to 35. It bounces back down to 30. You've got ETH, it bounces up to 2,200, it bounces back down under 2K. You got Bitcoin. Who cares? I don't even Wait, people are still watching the crypto market. Tell us how uranium's doing.

Yeah, it looks great. It moves way slower than crypto. It only is open for like eight hours a day. I really don't have to pay attention to it on the weekends. It's great. I really could not care less about what bouncy balls are happening over there. Big day today, though. Sounds great for their mental health.

What about medals? How are metals doing?

They're all right. I don't know. I mean, no, they're saying that I don't know if they're going to break new highs. Kevin Worsh is kind of like the the villain in the debasement trade.

Really? Because he's going to keep inflation low.

He's going to keep inflation low. Yeah, that's what Pomp was saying. I don't I don't buy it, though. He's going to run the economy hot. Uh, but I think there's a confluence of factors that still says he might slow we're actually quantitative tightening right now. He might slow down the rate of quantitative tightening. He's probably going to cut rates because he understands that we have a productivity boom from greater capex. And all of this is a recipe for asset prices go up but maybe not because of the debasement trade.

Think about Worsh do you think he's going to be bullish? Like do do you think Trump's going to bully him?

No. I think Trump already interrogated him and interviewed him for the job beforehand and that's why he was chosen. Now I think the Senate is going to have to appoint him and confirm it. But there's no reason they wouldn't do that. He's like like Trump said, he's central casting. He was a Fed governor since the age of 35. he's been pretty tight with Stan Drunken Miller. I think him and Scott Bessant have a really good rapport. So I think even though he's seen as a more hawkish Fed chairman, I think he's actually do a great job.

I think he's still going to cut rates even though he is seen as hawkish. I think he's going to do that because he realizes that we need to get the interest payments on the national debt under control and he's going to cut rates. He may continue quantitative tightening, but we reduced quant the the balance sheet at the Fed from nine trillion down to 6.5 trillion. We've already tightened $2.5 trillion. Is he going to continue to you know move in that direction? Probably. But it might be slower than the rate of tightening that we have right now.

So all that I mean I saw I saw Pomp say that you know he thinks that this regime with robotics AI and tariffs is very deflationary and that inflation is not a problem. I don't really buy it. I think it's a good narrative but I put a quote tweet out. It's coming out and I'm like I don't really buy that.

But guys without further ado I could care less about technology is always deflationary. Worshing Trump and I just dude layer zero is launching a good chain in New York City today. Wh why are you not there? Like where are you? You're sitting in South Florida in a black t-shirt hanging out. Guys, Layer Zero is launching a chain. We have crazy sources on this one. Last 24 hours has been insane. Rumor mill is hot. Let's get rumor mill up. And guys, we're going to rock through what is happening with layer zero. Layer zero chain zero release and partner set. Guys, a new era is coming. This is a text that we got. Layer Zero will be announcing their chain zero and they've built all their tech custom in-house which should make it faster and more scalable.

I would like to see anyone ever market a chain as if it was slower and less scalable. Rob, can can you can you help me out here? The partner listed today, it' be cooked. The partner list is stacked. ICE, NASDAQ, CBOE, Jump, Citadel, Arc, Sequoia. These are not all confirmed, but I'm pretty positive that at least half of these names will be announced with layer zero. They also just received a investment directly from Paulo from Tether himself, meaning that Tether is getting deeper into what Layer Zero is doing with their chain. I think this is for sure happening.

The the chain was actually leaked in a YouTube video that was recently deleted. it explained kind of what the chain build was going to be and I put a tweet out about it and it basically said it's a a decentralized multi-core blockchain design. We all need more chains, don't we? Has been the pretty much the big thing that I've heard in Twitter. It's designed to operate as internet scale market infrastructure by using zero knowledge proof to decouple execution from verification modular thesis winning allowing execution to scale horizontally while keeping validation lightweight and permissionless.

Basically you remove the consensus bottleneck. You replace the need to create all this replicated consensus with single zk proofs with math with cryptographic primitives through proto protocol owned parallel execution environments called atomicity zones. Zero delivers high throughput lowcost settlement without fragmenting security governance or state making verifiable gold markets possible on chain.

All that nerd stuff is great Andy but let's look at the partner list. Intercontinental Exchange, NASDAQ, CBOE, Jump, Citadel, ARC, and Sequoia. Insane. So, obviously, this is a list of both market high frequency traders and market makers, being Jump and Citadel.

Yeah. But then also, you have the exchanges themselves. And so, I think what is happening here is that we're going to get plenty of activity actually happening on this chain if they end up sourcing liquidity and they get some applications here. that I'd imagine that they will because they they have the partner list. But I think also what's relevant here is that there's going to be lots of flows and data that is going to flow out from this chain.

Meaning, you know, layer zero historically an oracle service has a lot of data. It's more of a bridge. It's more of like a interrupt protocol. Interop protocol, but yes, directly competitive with chain link and wormhole is like the big three. There's like a three-headed dragon there, right? And so I think what we're going to see is actually layer zero move more into what we could consider an oracle meaning like less interop more oracle as they start to provide data to some of these larger exchanges like ICE, NASDAQ and CBOE.

They have Bitcoin products. They have Ether and and other tokenized digital asset products. I think layer zero is going to be a hub through which a lot of this happens. meaning that because they have connectivity to these other exchanges and market makers, they're going to end up with like this conglomeration of data and you can do a lot with that if you have, you know, either the fastest data set with the lowest latency. Y we see market makers, you know, historically do this a lot, but also if you have the widest breadth of data, there's like richness and robustness and expressiveness that you can build.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Rob, all that all that nerd where is zero going from here? Where is ZRO going from here?

It's dumping a bit after this news came out% today. Just so you guys know, we were the first to drop this rumor mill never misses. It comes out. If you guys like this, throw throw a subscribe. All right. Well, why don't we tell the people where they can send their rumors straight to my DMs, please. More of them, please.

Guys, I think Zero is going to do well off this. I think the recent move already happened because of it. because this was coming out. I'm not really a huge owner of it, but I'm pretty sure the partner list is gonna absolutely shock the entire system.

So, without further ado, guys, we're going to move on to our news before our first set of guests. We got Sam Callahan, Sam, Victor Fischer, and Sam Ruskin today. Let's go ahead and move back to the latest news today. So, what do we have here? no KYC and minimal KYC crypto cards. This is going to complete the payments loop. And so we believe that because more stable coins are stemming from the money printer itself and making their way through the payments economy ultimately retail is going to be spending stable coins via cards at merchants.

no KYC and low KYC cards are all over my feed again. So, why don't we Yeah, low KYC cards and no KYC cards is crazy, too. I think for EtherFi, all we had to do was put our like address and our name. Yeah. So, maybe we do some verification, but like it wasn't like passport or driver's license, I don't think. No. And so, this is making it easier to spend crypto. You don't actually need to offramp yourself. There's more vendors that are allowing you to offramp through their payment rails.

You know, this is, yeah, we see gift cards here have been a way in which we've done this in the past in the old fiat system. Typically, you know, there's been a a rather small set of merchants that have taken cryptocurrency directly, which has meant that you had to offramp. We're seeing a convergence. We're seeing at the same time more merchants start to accept crypto when you can spend directly. No KYC necessary. And then at the same time, you know, you have more of these cards and more vendors providing payment rails to off-ramp crypto and allow merchants to accept these payments.

And so, yeah, I think at the same time, we're basically going to move into a world where you're pretty much free to spend crypto. You don't need to do KYC. You can just spend merchant to merchant, peer-to-peer. And they won't really care because money is money.

Yeah. I mean, I think I I I think this is kind of where some of the legal arbitrage is coming in for the the crypto neo banks. Like they're kind of basically getting around having to do real KYC that all these fintexs have to do and all these, you know, intricate policies because well, they can like classify themselves as non-custodial, right? And they can be like, we're non-custodial. We don't have to. We don't take users funds and so we're basically not going to have to follow the same rules that something like a Venmo or has to or like a Wise has to. And so kind of interesting, right? Like kind of interesting to to think about like what is the you know regulatory arbitrage that's happening here.

So yeah, like here we have like email verifications, right? We have like email KYC and load once spend done. So yeah, I think this is part of the Neo Finance kind of there's so many of these now. I I'm just curious how these companies start to differentiate. I'm hearing from VCs that there's so many NEO bank pitches that they're getting. Like so many.

So all right, let's move on from the cryptocards. I am a big EtherFi stand by the way guys. So, if you guys are using Etherfi, that is what I that's a great segue. Coming up next here, we've got Ether. Oh, wow. Monetization. So, revenue per user 256 higher than Wise and Revolute on par with Chime and SoFi. So, only 21K funded accounts with guys. If you haven't watched the episode on the rollup of with Avachchaw from Electric Capital and Mike from Etherfi, you should because there's a really really bullish thesis on crypto there that Ether is basically trying to push forward, which is if you can capture the wealthy crypto users or the wealthy kind of new users of finance, then you need way less users total by quantity than Wise and Revolute. And so in this exact example, they're doing that with 21,000 funded accounts, smaller user base, institution level, average average revenue per user, a very different model.

So So if you scroll down a bit, you can see kind of into the charts what this looks like. And yeah, I mean, they're just absolutely crushing. Like if you look at price to sales, customer ser or customer balances, number of funded accounts, it's crazy, right? because like the number of funded accounts in the bottom left is absolutely the the least of any of these competitors, SoFi, Phantom, etc. But the revenue per user in the bottom right is literally second to SoFi. So, I mean, they're clearly playing the right game. DCF Godd is really bullish on them as a seed investor. So are we.

Um, we haven't sold any of our E3FI. for us hopefully it's a multi-year play half a decade play and you know I know DCF and Jez are also bullish on Sky and Athena and a think we're a bit more opinionated on Sky versus Athena here but it's good to see some confluence with some of the heavy hitters in the space I think Ether is the American Express of Ethereum um they're going after a similar customer target these high net worth or excuse me these high earning not yet rich these Henry's and also the high net worth individuals that are looking at getting, you know, a proper merchant payment system in order to offer up their crypto.

I yeah, we're going to see a lot more of this. I think these are going to start to get pretty niche because that's the only way that these are going to get differentiated. Ether 5 has got an early lead and they've been one of the few restaking protocols. Remember when Ether 5 was restaking? uh and uh and now they've been able to successfully pivot into pre-staking man into crypto cards. So what a journey what a journey from I don't know if that was always I mean look when when we invested in etheri that's what they were they were they were a reststaking protocol but you know this might have been the part of the plan the whole time where you know getting enough TVL and getting like a liquidity sync then allows them to become a major provider of this payment rail.

Yeah, congrats to Mike doing great work over there. Let's continue. Yeah, I think we have our our our our first guest ready. But right before then, just quick things. Insights from Consensus HK focused on RWA's tokenization and new strategies. Sounds like NEO finance to me. I think we're pretty much all aligned on this trend. I've seen tweets from different people talking about how VCs are now focusing on revenue generating businesses. We also called the revenue meta now nine months ago. We're nine months into the revenue meta. Completely shifted the way that people are investing. Our Neo finance playbook is outperforming the market. It's outperforming Bitcoin by a lot. We're going to launch that. I think I'm going to vibe code a website this weekend. Nice. Uh to host the June dashboard on.

And yeah, I mean I'm kind of bummed that we're missing consensus, but I'm gonna go get some I'm gonna go hit the slopes today. up. Oh, yeah. Well, look, I think consensus is doing good over there in Hong Kong. I'm sure I'm sure the rumor mill is flying based on what we heard. I honestly don't think it's that I bet it's not that crazy over there, man. I bet it's more just bearish stuff. I just mean with all of the IBIT overleveraged Hong Kong fund blow up rumors, I believe there's probably some things floating around out there.

So guys, um, up next we are going to go to our first guest. So we're going to get him ready in the back room now. Um, and we're going to pull him up. Uh, it is going to be Sam Callahan. Uh, and we're going to pull him up in just a moment on the show. Uh, Sam, uh, Mike Sailor Sailor today comes out says he's going to buy Bitcoin every quarter for the remaining future. I don't know if he means in perpetuity or for the next, you know, year or till they run out of till they run out of Bitcoin. But curious to to see what Sam has to say. I'm actually curious what Sam thinks happened on February 5th. I think that's a good place to start with IBIT with the liquidations with Bitcoin bottoming at 59. I'm sure he was slightly sketched.

So, well, why don't we bring Sam up and talk Bitcoin treasuries, Bitcoin Treasury Co latam, and more. Well, let's get him up um and get live here. Sam, hey, how's it going on the pin, man?

Yeah, thanks, man. I'm I'm in New York for Bitcoin investor week, right? Yeah. Thanks for having me on.

Absolutely. Thanks for being here, man. Well, tell us a little bit about New York. We're going to be there very soon, uh, this spring, but give us a sense of, uh, the energy on the ground there.

Well, I would say it's freezing here. That's the first thing. But, uh, the energy on the ground's good. I mean, a lot of the people have been in Bitcoin for a long time. They're experienced. They're they're building. And so, this volatility doesn't really phase them. They've seen this before. And so I would say the sentiment here is very different than what you'd read on mainstream media or even on social media. Things are still bullish here. The fundamentals continue to improve and and the builders just keep building.

Incredible. So, there's been uh lots of uh conversation around the treasury companies. Um, we saw Pomp uh Pomp Leano launch, you know, his treasury company. Um, that's been a big subject up there in New York. As far as, you know, that we've seen, we've seen some Ethereum treasury companies go a different direction. Some of them are buying Mr. Beasts, you know, uh, uh, company equity. Uh, others are investing in airplanes, Bitcoin. You know, people are kind of starting to explore different areas. Where would you say we are? We had that mania a couple of months ago. Is it Are we sort of in this trough of disillusionment? Where do you think we are? What is what is the sentiment like there on the ground?

Well, I think you had it right. I I think there was a bit of a speculative fervor around these treasury companies in the early summer and what you're seeing now is that companies are starting to differentiate themselves as well as you're starting to see a separation, you know, from the cream from the crop. A lot of the premiums that were given to these companies in early summer, I think it was a result of of the sentiment, of the excitement. But you have to earn that premium. You have to build operational lines of businesses ideally around Bitcoin and you have to accumulate more Bitcoin in a creative way for your shareholders. And I think these market conditions are actually a really good test for these management teams to see if they can continue to accumulate Bitcoin despite Bitcoin's price action doing what it's doing. in terms of a resilient business model, you want a business model that can perform both when Bitcoin's going up and when Bitcoin's going down. And I think one of the things that strategies done recently, you know, there's a lot of concerns around the share price and things like that. But MSTR has amplified Bitcoin. It's leveraged Bitcoin. So, Bitcoin's going down, you should expect MSTR to be going down more. And when Bitcoin's going up, you could you should expect MSTR to go up more. And I think what MS strategy has been doing lately is they're not selling Bitcoin despite the Bitcoin price action like many thought, even despite the Bitcoin dropping below their average cost basis, which is a complete nothing burger. And not only that, but they're accumulating Bitcoin during this price action. So, they're actually proving that it is a resilient business model because, you know, despite the fact that Bitcoin's down 40 50% from its all-time high, Strategy continues to buy billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin. almost on a weekly basis. And so I think this is actually a a time when these treasury companies can really prove out their business model and the good management teams will continue to execute and uh you know build trust and a track record that their share shareholders can feel confident about.

Yeah. Um Sam, I got one more question here around some of the recent happenings. We this has sort of bubbled to the surface a bit. And and as more treasuries come out, you know, the idea that there's a lot more derivatives products out there, and there's still only, you know, the underlying 21 million Bitcoin out there, you know, these are becoming more and more disconnected, it seems. And so as there's there's more derivative products, there's more ETFs, more options volume, you know, the idea that there's kind of like more than 21 million Bitcoin out there, that's why we have a lot of the speculative mania and fervor, you know, do you give credence to that claim? Do you think that is, you know, ultimately why we're seeing a lot of kind of froth and leverage build up in the system or h how can we overcome the fact that, you know, we ultimately do get products that are onetoone linked, you know, if I can buy, you know, an ETF product, there's there's enough Bitcoin sitting there in reserves. Um, and we ultimately have a have an ecosystem here where um, you know, the money that is is people buying to get exposure to Bitcoin ultimately finds its way into, you know, the underlying Bitcoin itself.

Yeah, I think I I mean, we've seen the derivatives layer be built out over time and become more robust. I mean, you have futures, options, perpetual swaps, ETFs, structured products. You know, there's a lot of ways to get economic exposure to a single Bitcoin that can be replicated across all these financial instruments and like that creates leverage. And what leverage does is it can unwind, it can amplify price movements in both directions, but it doesn't change Bitcoin's monetary policy. You know, there's still only 21 million Bitcoin. Yep. You know, then that's verifiable to anybody running a node. Yep. Um, and so it'll kind of cause these shakeouts and these more amplified price movements and there'll be flush outs. Speculators will get wiped out for sellers will exit and the ownership of the actual Bitcoin will shift towards investors with longer time horizons.

And so I think I think these derivatives aren't like bad in itself. I think they could actually provide uh you know sophisticated ways to hedge uh but they can be abused and they can be misused and people have poor risk management and they could get on other sides. So I think you know uh the IBIT volumes that happened in this February 5th crash show that there was a lot of leverage being taken out on I bet I bet and um I think a lot of it was potentially like cross asset margin and leverage. So like you saw this like crazy volatility in precious metals. I mean silver was trading like like a like a small cap crypto um or gold was was losing tradins. Huh. Yeah. Like coins. Um and and so when that happens with you have a fund that's like allocating across different assets and then they're leveraged to IBID as well. You know they'll be forced sellers and I think that's what happened. I mean, when you have a price action like what happened over the last week, there's no doubt that leverage was involved. That's how you get these like significant moves like this.

Yeah. And so, I think it's a good thing that you see this flush out now. And I think uh you kind of have this situation now where is this the bottom? You know, nobody, you know, picking bottoms is a stinky business. Somebody told me once. Yeah. So, like, you know, we don't really know. I think it it kind of a factor of macro, but when you look at some of these indicators like the Mayor multiple, which looks at price towards the 200 day moving average, it's near historic lows, which is a sign that Bitcoin's undervalued historically to the trend. You have uh you know, things like um um the the the amount of shorting that's happening across futures, across options is also near historic highs. And so it's typically that's another sign of a bottom. Um you have different indicators that are indicating that we're kind of closer towards a bottom like lowest RSI readings in history as well. Potential sign of sellers. Oh god. We're doing some TA on the show today, aren't we?

Yeah. No, it's just like all these things together. I I one indicator. I look at kind of a a whole spectrum. Look, I agree, Sam. I I don't mean to interrupt so bluntly, but I I just think that after an event like what happened on Feb Feb 5th, it's kind of similar to 1010 where like 1010 led to I'm sure there's going to be more bodies that come out. I think I mean people have aggressively bought crypto assets at at or near the highs. And I mean when you buy assets at or near the highs, you feel pain and it's usually people, you know, have done something stupid and that comes out. I don't think like FTX level, but my general take is that it's going to take a little while for this for for for things to come out uh with regards to who who got blown out on that last move. And so whether the technical indicators suggest a bounce or not, I'm kind of more in the camp of okay, let's just see what happened. And uh I mean, Sam, if we can get Bitcoin buys between 50 and 70K this year, even just if we get 50 again or you know, 58, I think you're going to be really happy camper long term.

So I I guess just one more thing on that note, Sam. What do you think about uh this this entire idea? And I think Rob's question was not necessarily directly about like is there more than 21 coins in circulation, but do you think that the ever presence of DAC companies of things like Micro Strategy of uh crypto IPOs of the likes of Circle, Bitcoin, etc. Uh even Robin Hood? Do you think that these publicly traded companies stole the thunder from the altcoin complex this past year or two? Or like perhaps even looking forward, how do you assess where equity and capital is going to flow to speculate on crypto? Is it is there enough I think what Rob was trying to get to is like is there too many vehicles to speculate on the price of Bitcoin? Thus, the actual buying power on Bitcoin itself is diminishing because well, you can just go buy Robin Hood as a proxy or Coinbase as a proxy. How do you think about like the actual capital flows happening with regards to crypto assets specifically and then more like public e equities and how that dynamic is is going to shape up like over the next year or two?

Well, I think there's a lot of different ways to gain exposure to Bitcoin and there's different ways to play it. Like you said, there's different infrastructure plays. There's public Bitcoin mining companies. There's different ETFs. There's index funds now. There's there's all different ways to gain exposure to Bitcoin. And and I just have to say that there's nothing that could replicate Bitcoin's riskadjusted return and profile of having self-custody, having no counterparty risk, protection against the basement, all those things that make Bitcoin special if you hold it in self-custody. But there are different ways to play it nowadays. Now I I would say that some of them actually drive um demand for the underlying. So like for instance like the the Bitcoin treasury companies if you buy MSTR you're basically betting that MSTR is going to outperform Bitcoin because it's amplified Bitcoin. Now, when you buy MSTR, it helps drive demand for MSTR, which helps sustain the premium above MNAV, which allows Strategy to raise capital in a way that's accreative to buy more Bitcoin. And so that flywheel of buying MSTR, which actually leads to Strategy's increased ability to buy more Bitcoin, will actually lead to more demand for the underlying. Same thing with the ETF. the ETF, it directly um you know creates demand for the underlying Bitcoin. The Coinbase, it's a little bit more indirect, right? You're saying, "Okay, I'm going to bet Coinbase. They they dabble in not just Bitcoin, but other cryptocurrencies. It's more of like a picks and shovels play." Um the question is, you know, does will it outperform Bitcoin? Because that's really what you were trying to do. if you're if you're going to go to any of these other proxies or ways to get economic exposure to Bitcoin, you should have a goal of outperforming Bitcoin because if it's not, then what's the point? Why didn't you just buy Bitcoin? And so, I think a lot of these altcoins I think I think these DATs and equities did take um did take a little bit of the demand away from altcoins. I think part of it is altcoins poor track record agree of outperforming Bitcoin. They haven't across cycles. I I did a study like two years ago that looked at every single cryptocurrency on Coinbase across multiple cycles and I think only one I think it was BNB at the time. Maybe BNB and one other one uh made an all-time high against Bitcoin in in subsequent cycles. Yeah, man. Most of them die. Most of them get crushed by Bitcoin over long periods of time. And you're way way out on the risk curve with altcoins, right? It's more experimental technology. It should be considered different asset classes completely. That's, you know, you sound like our lovely friend Benjamin Cohen of uh cry into the cryptoverse here. Uh yeah, I mean it's just it's just the facts, right? Like I run the numbers, run the data, you know, the altcoins just haven't outperformed Bitcoin and that should be your goal. If you're going out in the risk curve, then what's the point? you're buying illquid, more illquid, riskier assets that may or may not survive a four-year cycle. And Bitcoin is the only one that's proven to to stay number one across multiple cycles and actually has a long-term value acral uh track record to to the coin itself. you know, these platforms like Ethereum and other ones can get a lot of traction going, but I still have a lot of question marks of how the value acrruel happens at the token level, right, for a lot of these things. And so, you know, anyway, I think we're trying to figure that out as an industry, you know. Yeah, they have. And there there've been a lot of narratives and, you know, I think people would call me a Bitcoin maxi. The only reason I focus on Bitcoin is just because I prioritize decentralization and security and I think Bitcoin solves a problem of uh debasement and the inability to save and so it's found product market fit and there's a lot going on in Bitcoin and I just don't have enough time to think about all these other cryptocurrencies because I think Bitcoin's really exciting.

Well, I'll have to ask you about gold. Um yeah, sure. But uh before then uh people are calling and I'm going to I'm going to mess this up. Orange BTC. Orange BTC. Orange BTC. Orange BTC. You're not the first. I thought it was going to be like some like because it's like Latan focused. I was going to play like the Portuguese accent or something. Oran BTC. Good. The Micro Strategy of Brazil. Apparently, that's not the right way to think about it. You guys are just working with Interactive Brokers uh for or OPTC3 to get better liquidity. A deeper set of investor mixed a mixed bag there, more credibility. talk to us about the state of of your company here. Uh this this work that you guys are doing with IDKR uh and why you guys are not the Micro Strategy of Brazil.

Well, Interactive Brokers um partnered with B3, which is the stock exchange that OBTC3 is listed on. So, it's like the NASDAQ in Brazil. So, Interactive Brokers partner with them to bring Brazilian equities to the platform, which we support. we're super excited about um because it allows Americans, Canadians, and and European investors to get exposure to Brazilian equities including Orangebe BTC's. Um and so that's great for us. That's great for accessibility um liquidity and just opening us uh up to uh you know international investors making it easier and so that's great. Um we Orange PTC listed on October 7th and then October 10th happened and so we can't really control market conditions. Um but the beauty of it is we've been built uh we constructed our balance sheet um and our capital structure to be resilient to take into account Bitcoin's volatility. So um unlike some of our peers and other treasury companies that might be sweating a little bit due to this price action because they have too much leverage, we actually had very low leverage going into uh this correction. And so we were built to last for many many years. Um, I think our goal is to drive Bitcoin adoption in Latin America, a region that needs it most, uh, because of the currency instability they've had there, capital controls they've had there in the past, uh, and just general financial instability and inability to save. And right now, what what we did was we reverse mergered with an education company. And so we have an infrastructure um that does educational courses for university there. and we're digitizing that infrastructure and then over time we're transforming it with more Bitcoin curriculum and to be a leader in bit Bitcoin education in that region because we think it's probably like two to three years behind the United States in terms of just general Bitcoin and understanding and then uh in Brazil in terms of like Bitcoin accessibility like large institutional investors like pension funds and insurance companies are restricted from buying spot bitcoin they can't um and so what we offer is a an equity that gains exposure to Bitcoin similar to what Micro Strategy was in in 2020 2021 before the ETFs were approved. A lot of people didn't have ways to gain exposure to Bitcoin in uh in accounts like uh you know their RAAS or 401ks or these large institutional investors. Uh same thing they just didn't feel comfortable um with the operational overhead of of getting your own keys of doing the Bitcoin. it didn't fit within their compliance um mandates and so they need to get a proxy an equity proxy. Same thing exists in Brazil, except there's really no ways to get exposure to Bitcoin um