Empire
July 1, 2025

How to Build Through Bull & Bear Markets | Permissionless IV Fireside Chat | Bonus Episode

In a candid fireside chat at Permissionless IV, Blockdaemon founder Constantine explores the brutal realities and strategic patience required to build a crypto infrastructure giant through volatile market cycles. He offers a rare look into serving Fortune 500 clients while charting a course for a tokenized future.

The Four-Year Cycle

  • "Crypto moves in a sort of four-year cycle where as a founder one year you look like a genius, two years nobody cares about you, and then one year you look like an idiot but nothing actually changes in what you do."
  • Building in crypto is a psychological gauntlet where market perception, not operational progress, dictates how you are viewed. The same founder can be called a genius in a bull market and dead in the water after a crash like the FTX collapse, all while executing the same long-term strategy.
  • The industry is intensely narrative-driven. Without traditional valuation metrics like SaaS multiples, stakeholders chase volatile trends—from launching L2s to memecoins—creating immense pressure on founders to pivot away from their core vision. Blockdaemon resisted these fads to focus on its institutional wallet architecture.

The Institutional Toolbox

  • "The idea behind Blockdaemon was always that we want to be in the background. We want to run infrastructure. Ideally, we don't want to be known."
  • Blockdaemon’s strategy is to be the silent, institutional-grade “operating system” for Web3. It provides a full-stack toolbox—DeFi APIs, staking, and wallets—that lets major brands like JP Morgan build their own crypto products.
  • The core thesis is to control the wallet layer, as the entity holding the tokens can best monetize the underlying transactions and yield. However, the path is arduous; the vendor onboarding process alone for a major bank can take over a year.

The Real Institutional Wave

  • "If you put a large enough pot of money in front of people, things change really, really fast."
  • While institutional interest is high, the current volume is almost entirely concentrated in Bitcoin ETFs. The next wave will see Fortune 500 firms launching stablecoins and integrating “earn” features into their platforms, but true, scaled-up adoption is still a 2026-or-later event.
  • The ultimate crypto-native exit isn’t a traditional IPO. Constantine’s preference is to tokenize Blockdaemon’s equity and IPO on-chain, offering stock directly on a decentralized exchange. While not currently feasible, he is testing the waters by developing a staking index token to aggregate yield and provide liquidity.

Key Takeaways:

  • Building a durable crypto company requires navigating the perception paradox, patiently onboarding institutions, and aligning with the industry's token-native ethos for long-term success.
  • Ignore the Noise: Founder success is judged by market cycles, not actual progress. The primary challenge is maintaining conviction in a long-term vision while resisting the pressure to chase short-term narratives.
  • Institutions Play the Long Game: The institutional floodgates are opening, but it's a slow trickle, not a tidal wave. The immediate future is stablecoins and basic yield products, not a full-scale DeFi revolution within banks. Patience is the ultimate competitive advantage.
  • The Future is a Tokenized IPO: The most aligned path to liquidity for a crypto company is to tokenize its own equity and list on-chain. This is the endgame, and projects are already experimenting with precursor products like liquid staking tokens to pave the way.

For further insights and detailed discussions, watch the full podcast: Link

This episode reveals the stark realities of building a crypto infrastructure company through bull and bear markets, highlighting the critical balance between chasing market narratives and executing a long-term institutional strategy.

Navigating Crypto's Volatile Four-Year Cycle

  • The Four-Year Cycle: Constantine explains that for founders, the market cycle often means "one year you look like a genius, two years nobody cares about you, and then one year you look like an idiot, but nothing actually changes in what you do."
  • Market Perception vs. Reality: He emphasizes that market dynamics and the volatility inherent in token-based networks heavily shape external perception. During bull markets, expectations are sky-high, but in bear markets, the same long-term vision can be dismissed as a failure, making it difficult to maintain conviction.

Balancing Narratives with a Long-Term Vision

  • The Narrative Trap: Crypto is a "deep tech novel thing" without a standard playbook like SaaS, leading investors to chase the next hot trend. This creates immense pressure on founders to pivot toward popular narratives like launching an L2 (Layer 2), a secondary blockchain built on a primary one to improve scalability.
  • Strategic Conviction: Constantine recounts the decision in 2021 to focus on institutional wallet architecture, a long-term play. Despite pressure to pursue more "exciting" uses of their engineering talent, they maintained their focus. He highlights a preference for supporting a few major ecosystem efforts, like Base, rather than trying to "extract value out of every individual little thing."

The Blockdaemon Business Model Explained

  • What is a Daemon? In computer science, a daemon is a program that runs silently in the background to perform essential tasks. This reflects Blockdaemon's mission to provide core, unseen infrastructure connecting institutions to Web3.
  • Three Core Pillars:
    • Nodes and APIs: Originally focused on full nodes for transactions, this business is now evolving to include DeFi APIs and bridging liquidity.
    • Institutional Staking: Blockdaemon is a major US-domiciled staking provider for institutional clients, running nodes for most major entities in the space.
    • Wallet Architecture: This is the unifying element. Constantine explains that controlling the wallet—where tokens physically reside—is key to monetizing transactions and yield. They build wallet infrastructure for major financial players like JP Morgan to manage digital assets.

The Institutional-Crypto Native Balancing Act

  • The Institutional Timeline: Onboarding a major bank can be an incredibly slow process. Constantine notes, "for Bank of New York, for example, vendor onboarding alone takes over a year, right, like just to sell them a Bitcoin node."
  • Managing Expectations: While institutional interest is high, most of the current volume is concentrated in Bitcoin ETFs. The broader adoption of on-chain products is building slowly. This creates a challenge where the company's current revenue doesn't reflect the value of its long-term contracts, forcing it back into being a "narrative-driven business" to manage stakeholder expectations.

The Future of Crypto Company IPOs

  • The Circle IPO Effect: The anticipation around Circle's IPO has created a new narrative, with investors now pressuring companies to go public immediately to capitalize on market appetite for institutional-grade crypto products.
  • A Tokenized, On-Chain IPO: Constantine expresses a strong preference for a tokenized public offering. He states, "I really want to take a really good look at that and think about how can we make our stock participate in a tokenized world." He envisions a future where investors could buy Blockdaemon stock on a decentralized exchange, aligning the company's liquidity event with the core ethos of crypto.
  • Testing the Waters: Blockdaemon is exploring tokenization concepts, such as a "staking index token," to aggregate yield and simplify staking for users. This serves as a way to test the mechanics of tokenized economies before potentially applying them to the company's own equity.

The Institutional Roadmap: What's Coming Next?

  • Stablecoins and RWAs: Real-world assets (RWAs) on-chain are a major developing trend. He predicts that a "stablecoin strategy" will become a standard for Fortune 500 companies and payment networks.
  • Integrating Yield: The integration of "earn and yield" into traditional finance (TradFi) products will be a significant area of development. Institutions are actively exploring how to incorporate staking and other yield-generating mechanisms into their offerings.
  • Battle of the L2s: A key area to watch will be which L2 networks—like those based on Optimism's OP Stack or ZK-rollups—become the preferred settlement layers for these new institutional products.

Evolving Business Models: Crypto-as-a-Service

  • An Institutional Toolbox: Blockdaemon aims to be an institutional portal where any company can access APIs for transactions, widgets for yield products, and wallet solutions. This allows clients like Charles Schwab or even media companies like Blockworks to build their own on-chain offerings.
  • Reducing Third-Party Risk: For large institutions, working with a single, compliant, and audited platform like Blockdaemon is highly attractive. It simplifies the complex vendor stack and reduces the perceived risk of engaging with multiple, smaller crypto-native companies.

The US as the Endgame for Crypto?

  • A Favorable Shift: He states, "it's never been better to build crypto anywhere in the world than in the US today." This comes after a difficult period where Blockdaemon faced regulatory headwinds, including being unbanked.
  • Keeping Value Onshore: A key goal of the US market structure bill should be to ensure that value generated from US consumers remains within the US economy. Constantine argues that the higher cost of operating in the US must be balanced by a regulatory framework that encourages domestic innovation and prevents revenue from being "sucked up offshore."

Conclusion

This discussion underscores that long-term success in crypto requires immense patience and strategic conviction to withstand market cycles and narrative-chasing. For investors and researchers, the key is to identify infrastructure players with deep institutional roots and a clear, multi-year vision for bridging traditional finance with the on-chain economy.

Others You May Like