Epoch AI
October 27, 2025

AI can learn logic. But can it learn folklore knowledge? - Svetlana Jitomirskaya

Svetlana Jitomirskaya, a mathematical physicist at UC Berkeley, explores AI’s surprising grasp of logic, its current limitations with unwritten "folklore" knowledge, and how it’s poised to transform the very nature of mathematical research.

The "Folklore" Knowledge Gap

  • "In order to solve my problem, the machine would really need to argue in a way that is not even written in any paper, although maybe understood by some people in the field."
  • "It is not a very difficult problem for someone who has certain knowledge, but this knowledge is not widespread. This knowledge is not in the literature. This is kind of a little bit of a folklore knowledge."
  • Svetlana submitted a problem to an AI challenge that is solvable by a knowledgeable graduate student but stumps AI. The reason? It requires "folklore knowledge"—the unwritten intuition and understanding shared among experts in a niche field.
  • This highlights a key AI limitation: if the knowledge isn't documented in its training data, it can't reason with it. She predicts her problem could withstand AI for another 10-20 years because of this specific gap.

The Mathematician's New Job Description

  • "The work of mathematicians will become more creative; there will be less time spent on routine because this would be delegated to the machines."
  • AI is rapidly becoming a powerful assistant, capable of handling lengthy computations and routine arguments "momentarily." Jitomirskaya was so impressed by a recent experience that she plans to use it frequently in her research.
  • This shift will automate away the grunt work, elevating the role of the mathematician. The focus will move away from execution and toward pure creativity, abstract thinking, and formulating novel problems. Routine papers based on simple analogies will likely become obsolete, as AI will be able to generate them.

From Logic to Lean: Verification is the Next Frontier

  • "My biggest hope… is that actually all the mathematics will be put in the verified database, this Lean database. When you submit a paper to a journal, you need to prove that it was Lean verified."
  • Jitomirskaya admits she was wrong to think LLMs were just "regurgitating." She now sees they have developed genuine logic by learning to extrapolate key ideas.
  • Her biggest hope for AI in math is the rise of formal verification tools like Lean. An automated "translator" to Lean could create a fully verifiable database of all mathematics, eliminating errors from papers and revolutionizing peer review. Referees would no longer check for correctness—only for "interestingness."

Key Takeaways:

  • AI is forcing a redefinition of mathematical work, shifting the value from routine execution to high-level creativity. Even if AI eventually masters creativity, humans may continue doing math like a sport—for the inherent challenge and beauty.
  • AI's Blind Spot is Unwritten Knowledge. The biggest barrier for AI in advanced problem-solving is accessing the "folklore" knowledge and intuition that experts build over a career but never write down.
  • The Future of Math is a Promotion, Not Obsolescence. AI will act as a powerful assistant that handles rote tasks, pushing mathematicians to focus exclusively on creative and abstract thinking.
  • The Next Revolution is AI-Powered Verification. Automated formal proof systems like Lean have the potential to eliminate errors from research papers, transforming peer review from a check on correctness to a judgment on a paper's novelty and impact.

For further insights and discussions, watch the full podcast: Link

This episode reveals the critical gap between AI's emerging logical power and the unwritten, intuitive "folklore knowledge" that defines human expertise in mathematics, offering a crucial benchmark for the future of AI in complex problem-solving.

A Mathematician's Perspective on the AI Frontier

Svetlana Jitomirskaya, a mathematical physicist from UC Berkeley, explains her presence at the event is driven by a mix of fascination and concern. She is here to gauge AI's current capabilities in advanced mathematics and understand its potential to reshape her field, including whether it might eventually make human mathematicians obsolete.

The "Folklore Knowledge" Challenge

  • This "folklore knowledge" represents the intuitive, unwritten expertise that specialists develop over time.
  • Jitomirskaya notes that while a knowledgeable graduate student could solve it, current AI models have "no clue," highlighting a significant gap in their reasoning abilities.
  • She predicts her problem will withstand AI for over a decade, possibly two, serving as a long-term benchmark for AI's progress in abstract reasoning.

"In order to solve my problem, machine would really need to argue in a way that is not even written in any paper although maybe understood by some people in the field."

An Unexpected Glimpse of AI's Logical Power

  • This experience shifted her perspective, demonstrating that modern Large Language Models (LLMs) are moving beyond simple information retrieval.
  • She acknowledges her previous assumption was wrong: "I always thought that they were just regurgitating, but they developed logic right now."
  • This event convinced her to integrate AI more actively into her research workflow, signaling a practical shift in how top-tier academics may approach their work.

The Unsolved Problem of AI Creativity

  • Human Intuition: Humans can develop abstract patterns and insights from very few examples.
  • AI's Limitation: It is difficult to imagine how to train an AI to "try something that nobody has tried," which she defines as the essence of creativity.
  • Strategic Implication: For investors and researchers, the development of AI that can replicate abstract, creative thought—not just logical deduction—remains the ultimate, and most valuable, frontier.

Revolutionizing Mathematics with Formal Verification

  • Lean: A formal proof assistant that allows mathematicians to write proofs that a computer can check for correctness. This ensures absolute logical soundness, eliminating human error.
  • The current bottleneck is the immense effort required to translate a human-written proof into Lean's format.
  • Her hope is for an AI-powered "automatic translator" that could bridge this gap, a development she believes is only a few years away.
  • Actionable Insight: An automated Lean translator would revolutionize scientific publishing and has direct parallels to the crypto space, particularly in the automated auditing and verification of smart contracts. This technology represents a significant investment and research opportunity.

The Value of Inhuman Proofs

  • Jitomirskaya argues this would still be valuable mathematics, placing it in the category of a computer-assisted proof. This refers to existing proofs, like that of the four-color theorem, which rely on computer calculations so extensive that they cannot be fully verified by a human.
  • While these proofs are accepted as correct, they are considered a different class from elegant "proofs from the book" that provide deep human insight.
  • This suggests a future where AI-generated knowledge is valued for its correctness, even if it lacks human-readable intuition.

Predictions on AI's Transformative Impact

  • Impact on Math Research (0-10): A score of 5, indicating a significant but not total transformation, where human creativity remains central.
  • Impact on the World (0-10): Greater than 10, suggesting an impact exceeding that of the Industrial Revolution.
  • Attitude Toward AI Progress (0-10): An 8, reflecting a strong belief in progress, provided necessary safeguards are in place.

The Future of Human Mathematicians in an AI World

  • When asked if she would continue doing math if an AI could do it all, Jitomirskaya speculates on the future of human intellectual pursuits.
  • She draws a parallel to chess, where humans continue to play and compete despite being surpassed by machines.
  • The role of mathematicians might evolve to a higher level of abstraction—focusing on formulating new models and frameworks for the AI to explore.
  • This suggests that as AI automates one level of intellectual work, human focus may simply shift to the next, preserving a role for human ingenuity.

Conclusion

This discussion highlights that while AI is rapidly mastering logic, the frontier of true innovation lies in replicating abstract creativity and "folklore knowledge." For investors and researchers, the most critical areas to watch are the development of AI-powered formal verification systems and the fundamental challenge of teaching machines to think in truly novel ways.

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