Epoch AI
October 27, 2025

AI can learn logic. But can it learn folklore knowledge? - Svetlana Jitomirskaya

UC Berkeley mathematical physicist Svetlana Jitomirskaya discusses her evolving perspective on AI, detailing a problem she designed to test its limits by probing the unwritten, "folklore knowledge" of expert mathematicians.

The Folklore Knowledge Gauntlet

  • "In order to solve my problem, the machine would really need to argue in a way that is not even written in any paper, although maybe understood by some people in the field. This is kind of a little bit of a folklore knowledge."
  • Jitomirskaya’s problem for the AI competition is designed not to be computationally hard, but to require a type of expert intuition that isn’t documented in literature—a major blind spot for AIs trained on existing texts.
  • While a knowledgeable grad student could solve it, current AI has "no clue," demonstrating the gap between processing published knowledge and possessing genuine, domain-specific understanding. She predicts this problem could withstand AI for 10-20 years.

AI's Surprising Leap to Logic

  • "I always thought that they were just regurgitating, but they developed logic right now. If you train them on summarizing things, they just extrapolate the key ideas."
  • Initially a skeptic, Jitomirskaya was recently stunned when an AI tool “momentarily” handled lengthy arguments and computations for a problem she was creating, convincing her of its utility in research.
  • She now believes LLMs have developed a form of logic, theorizing that being trained on summarization forces them to extract core principles rather than just mimicking patterns.

The Future of Math: Verified & Creative

  • "The work of mathematicians will become more creative; less time will be spent on routine because this can be delegated to the machines."
  • AI is poised to automate the "routine" aspects of math, elevating the role of human mathematicians to focus on more creative, abstract, and problem-formulating tasks.
  • A key hope is for a future where all mathematical papers are formally verified using proof assistants like Lean. An automated text-to-Lean translator, potentially just years away, would make this standard, shifting peer review from checking correctness to judging a paper’s significance.

Key Takeaways

  • The frontier for AI in math is moving beyond computation to reasoning with unwritten, expert intuition. True human-level mathematical intelligence requires AIs to learn the "folklore" of a field, not just its textbooks.
  • AI's Blind Spot is "Folklore": The next great challenge for AI isn't raw calculation, but acquiring the unwritten, intuitive "folklore knowledge" that separates experts from students.
  • Mathematicians Become Creative Directors: As AI handles the technical grind, the human role in mathematics will shift from execution to creative direction—formulating novel problems and abstract models.
  • The End of Errors: Formal verification tools like Lean, powered by AI translators, are on the verge of revolutionizing math by creating a fully verifiable, error-free database of human knowledge, changing how proofs are published and reviewed.

For further insights, watch the discussion here: Link

This episode reveals the critical distinction between AI's emerging logical prowess and its current inability to grasp the unwritten, "folklore knowledge" that underpins true mathematical creativity.

A Mathematician's Perspective on the AI Frontier

Svetlana Jitomirskaya, a mathematical physicist from UC Berkeley, frames the conversation with a blend of fascination and professional concern. She is exploring AI's capabilities not just out of curiosity, but to understand its potential to reshape her field and automate high-level intellectual work. Her perspective is that of an expert testing the limits of a powerful new tool, trying to determine if it will be an assistant or a replacement.

The "Folklore Knowledge" Challenge

  • The Test: The problem is designed to see if AI can reason from first principles and intuition, rather than just synthesizing published information.
  • Human vs. Machine: A knowledgeable graduate student could solve it, but the AI, in its initial attempts, "had no clue."
  • Core Insight: Svetlana explains that the solution relies on a kind of "folklore knowledge"—the unwritten rules, intuitions, and abstract connections that experts develop through experience. This represents a significant frontier for AI development.

From Skepticism to Surprise: AI's Logical Leap

  • A Practical Test: While creating her problem submission, she used an AI assistant to perform lengthy computations and formulate complex arguments she was too "lazy to do in advance."
  • Unexpected Capability: The AI completed the task "momentarily," demonstrating a grasp of logic and reasoning that went far beyond simple pattern matching. Svetlana notes that LLMs have developed logic by being trained to summarize and extrapolate key ideas.
  • Strategic Implication: This observed leap in logical reasoning suggests that AI's ability to perform complex, multi-step tasks is accelerating, a key indicator for investors tracking model capabilities.

Redefining the Role of the Mathematician

  • Automating the Routine: AI will handle tasks that are currently time-consuming, such as proving theorems by analogy to existing papers. This will free up researchers to focus on more novel and creative problems.
  • Raising the Bar: As AI automates formulaic research, the value of human contribution will shift entirely to creative and abstract thinking. The work of mathematicians will become "more creative, less time spent on routine."
  • Investor Takeaway: The automation of high-level intellectual work is a powerful trend. In the Crypto AI space, this points toward the development of autonomous agents that can not only execute but also design and optimize complex protocols.

The Future of Verifiable Truth: The "Lean" Revolution

  • The Problem of Errors: She points out that most academic papers contain errors, ranging from minor to significant.
  • The Solution with Lean: She envisions a future where all mathematical papers must be verified using Lean, a formal proof assistant that translates human-readable proofs into a machine-verifiable format. This would guarantee their correctness.
  • The Current Bottleneck: The primary obstacle is the immense effort required to translate written arguments into Lean code. However, she notes that an automatic translator is projected to be only a "couple of years away."
  • Relevance for Crypto AI: This directly parallels the critical need for formal verification in smart contracts and decentralized protocols to eliminate bugs and exploits. An AI-powered "translator" for smart contract code could be a game-changer for blockchain security.

AI, Creativity, and the Riemann Hypothesis

  • Computer-Assisted Proofs: Svetlana compares a potential AI proof to existing "computer-assisted proofs," which are correct but too complex for a human to verify without a machine.
  • A Different Kind of Math: While valuable, she argues such a proof would lack the elegance and beauty of a "proof from the book" that provides deep human insight.
  • The Black Box Problem: This highlights the challenge of explainability in AI. For decentralized systems, an AI that can provide a correct but incomprehensible solution for governance or optimization presents both an opportunity and a risk.

Final Outlook and Predictions

  • Her Problem's Longevity: She expects her "folklore knowledge" problem to withstand AI for more than 10, possibly 20 years.
  • Impact on Math Research: A moderate 5 out of 10.
  • Impact on the World: Greater than the Industrial Revolution (a 10+).
  • Personal Stance: An 8 out of 10 in favor of accelerating AI progress, provided safeguards are in place. She remains an optimist who believes in progress.

Conclusion

This discussion highlights that while AI is mastering formal logic, the next frontier is encoding the intuitive, "folklore knowledge" of experts. For investors and researchers, the key takeaway is to monitor AI's progress in abstract reasoning, as this capability will unlock truly autonomous systems and redefine intellectual work itself.

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