2025 Crypto Year in Review, Part 1: Shit Talking Edition

So where I disagree, is Trump a creator coin? Is Trumpcoin a creator coin? Yeah, in my opinion, I mean, so like he's he's on your pay, you know, he's only getting paid 400k a year to be president. He's got to monetize somehow. Hi everyone, welcome to Unchained, your no hype resource for all things crypto. I'm your host, Laura Shin. Thanks for joining this live stream. Just a heads up, this is a pre-record, but I feel quite certain you will want to listen to this one. Before we get started, a quick reminder, nothing you hear on Unchained is investment advice. This show is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and my guests and I may hold assets discussed on the show. For more information, visit unchainedcrypto.com. If you look at most debts today, they depend on quite a complex mesh of different infrastructure, a lot of which is centralized. Walrus is a decentralized data platform. It's particularly good with large unstructured data files and it allows you to store and use those without dependency on any centralized systems. It works really well as part of the stack. It was created by Miston Labs who are also the originators of that stack. And what that means is natively together they allow developers to build with trust, ownership, privacy baked in right from the beginning. And what this does is it allows you to build use cases that monetize data in ways that just have not been possible before. So there are whole new revenue streams that are now available to builders to come and build on Morris. Today's topic is 2025 year in review. Here to discuss are Gwart, host of the Gwart show and Doug Kolkit, co-founder of Fogo and Ambient Finance. Welcome Doug and Gwart.

Gwart: Hi, thanks for thanks for having me. Excited to be here.

Doug: Yeah, happy to be here. Hopefully we can make it funny. I promise you we can make this funny in some capacity. So I do appreciate you having us along.

Laura Shin: Okay, so everyone just a heads up. We are not here for serious discussion. This is here. We are here to basically just shoot the over the big events of 2025. This is not meant to be informative. This is meant to be pure entertainment. So, we are basically going to just run through a big list of highlights of the news from the year. And to my mind, I think we have to start with the Trump and Melania meme coins. That really was the big introduction to crypto in 2025. So, I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Gort and Doug, about what happened then and, you know, what you thought it meant for the coming year for what was then the coming year in crypto. Doug, take it take it take it first.

Doug: Well, I wasn't I wasn't convinced by the Trump coin, but the Melania coin came out. It was all in all in on Melania. So, uh, no, I think I think that the second one really sold it. I I didn't know they were in on it till both of the couple. It's really husband and wife are both in it. It's, uh, shows dedication to the space.

Gwart: Yeah, I think it was sort of well, first of all, like obviously we've now seen the secondary and tertiary effects of this and a lot of people think that that was like very clearly the beginning of the end and it nuked all liquidity out of everything. But I do think in all seriousness, I know we're not supposed to be serious, but that was the first Well, yeah, I would say that was the first like in my mind it was like very elucidating where obviously leading up to Trump's election, it was like quite clear why, you know, crypto needed to align itself. Like I think it was sort of make or break and I think crypto realized that to to some extent with like getting on board with somebody who wasn't going to destroy this industry because I think we were at sort of a tipping point where if somebody in office wasn't willing to kind of like create positive regulation on the space like it was not looking good. But I think that the the subsequent like memecoin and just the degree to which he has gone like full balls deep into crypto has been extremely I mean it was like oh my god like no way right and so that to me like it not to say that it was just you know like I don't know I I I felt convinced that you know he was going to be involved in some capacity but I don't think I expected this and I certainly did not I mean the millennial one was truly like, oh no, like this could actually get really, really bad.

Laura Shin: Well, this literally the day before inauguration day, right? It was like the night before inauguration day, wasn't it? It was like, it wasn't just even releasing a coin. It was like right before I'm president. I'm going to Yeah.

Gwart: So Trump did it on Friday night and then Melania did it Sunday and then inauguration was Monday.

Laura Shin: But Gord, I mean, what are you saying here? Like I think Melania, like I like Doug said, that's what sold it. I think that probably is what made Doug a true believer.

Doug: Yeah. You don't Yeah. So Melania is a is a dedicated dev.

Gwart: Well, first of all, like who were they working with, right? Cuz didn't So, correct me if I'm wrong and now we're kind of all like I think they were working our with our favorite Hayden Davis who's the Tayen and all of crypto. So, but also, wasn't this the night of that ball thing they had and it was at like a random hour, right? And so soul went to an all-time high because for it's because there was just so much demand to buy Trumpcoin. I mean the so the one like serious point is amazingly soul did not go down and it all worked perfectly and so so it it was a gift to the industry to have this like surprise big test and um and yeah Salana passed. So um yeah.

Laura Shin: Okay. Okay. So, we can move on, I think, to the next event because we are going to talk about our favorite Hayden in crypto, Hayden Davis, who was part of the esteemed Libracoin and launch. So, yeah, I'd like to hear your guys thoughts on that event. That was like honestly even more ridiculous. And the then afterwards, what what were the shows he went on and just was rambling?

Gwart: Oh, no. almost inco this the sweater the with letting you wear your shoulder every day his head small. No, but it's really like it's extremely I mean like th this is outrageous that every single lawyer in the world would have told him like do not say a word and he went on and said very many words and it doesn't seem like thus far there's been any repercussions.

Doug: Yeah. It's in Tokyo, right? At like uh the Aman at the Yman right now at the buffet. I think he was uh Yeah, he and SBF must have the same lawyer giving them advice on

Laura Shin: Yeah, but SBF is in jail and it doesn't seem like this kid's in jail, right?

Doug: No, no, no. But, you know, the Samurai wallet developer is now. So, I think that's um there there's a lesson in there for somebody to learn. I don't know what it is, but

Gwart: The lesson has not really been taught. I'll be honest. Like if he's just walking around the Aman in Tokyo, it doesn't I I don't know. Wasn't there some for I mean this probably just crypto Twitter making stuff up, but there was like something about you know Interpole or you know some type of you know the people who enforced the rules were Argentina.

Laura Shin: Yeah, they said like the Argentine government was going to go was like an enemy of the state of Argentina or something and they were putting out like so it is true that an attorney requested an interpole red notice for Davis and it's it's an attorney in Argentina but I don't know if that means that like that actually happened.

Gwart: So, I mean the crazy part is that with like all of us sitting here and you know having I'm not trying to slander or say anything like too derogatory, but like it does seem like he pulled off this massive heist of sorts and none of us it doesn't seem like readily apparent that he necessarily did anything illegal. Like I don't I mean I don't know for a fact that what he did was illegal. Like that's what that's the crazy part to me is that like I'm sitting here I'm like yeah well maybe this was just you know your your standard pumpf fun launch and there's like everybody knew what they were getting themselves into right

Doug: I mean yeah I I like whether or not it's legal that that is yeah that's probably actually not a decided thing

Laura Shin: melee tweeted from his main account right it was like this is my co and then he came back as like this is not my coin

Gwart: well I think he said that this was like it was going to benefit Argentina in some way. I forget. Like he thought he was promoting a business or that's what he claimed. Like he thought he was promoting something that was beneficial for Argentina. But I Yeah. I mean I just I I still don't know like the inside story of how how he got to the like this guy Hayden got to the president of Argentina and convinced him to launch Yeah. launch a coin. like they're ultimate something weird happened there. He was like drop shipping sneakers the year before and and now he's launching like you know coins with the world leaders like just the rock literal siders.

Doug: Yeah. Must admit he has impressive shoulder pads. Like that's all I think of that is built and nobody can match it.

Laura Shin: Okay. Okay. So, next event that we're going to talk about, it's going to seem a little serious, but um there's no way we can avoid it. The Bibbit hack, which was the biggest hack uh I think in the whole entire world um in all of history. And um yeah, it involves our favorite developers in crypto, the DPRK developers. I'm such a fan girl. Um what are your takes on that?

Doug: Yeah, I think it was I mean it was pretty wild how uh right like they had to override was it nosis safe or maybe it was actually they were getting them to sign different things.

Laura Shin: Yeah, they had like um they had um over they had compromised one of the NOS safe developers and that allowed them to change something in like AWS or whatever and then change it.

Doug: Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. Right, right, right. Yeah, they yeah, they were able to display like the wrong thing and the the signature I'm I mean it just I mean like you know I've been on a multi-IG of a protocol and it's just like it's like at some point you're like am I being too paranoid like I have separate machines I like you know they everything's air gapped like I double check like three different machines that the signatures are right and it's like no well like I mean it's just the level of paranoia is like crazy. You have to you have to be on like any sort of multisig signer.

Gwart: I mean all I can say is I think those developers probably like in Korea or in North Korea which people probably know if you get punished then the next three generations of your family can also receive the same punishment. Like if you get sent to the goolog then the next three generations will be born in the goolog. And um yeah, maybe the next few generations of these developers will be um sitting pretty in North Korea just, you know, getting like palm frrons fanning their faces all day.

Laura Shin: Um but I did also want to ask uh so oh the other thing that was so crazy to me about that hack was that they didn't do a test transaction. They moved Oh yeah. Like what what was it like $2 billion or something like just with a single? I was just like what the like like they just have and then and then they were like okay we're going to cover it with our with our profits like they just have so much money.

Doug: One thing, yeah, sorry to interrupt, but I was thinking one thing. This isn't so much funny, but after the hack, the CEO was like on a live stream. It's like everybody, you know, now uses the immediate like go on a live stream or go on some podcast, but he was on a live stream like maybe six hours afterwards. And I remember thinking at the time like, man, this is either going to be one of those things where we look back and we're like, oh, like this was the end of him and by bit. Uh, but I will say I was like quite impressed. I mean, he seemed, you know, pretty honest and direct um in his kind of, you know, PR and they've worked everything out. So, I I will say like I was quite impressed with Bibbit being able to cover this and like overall the the comms were quite good around it. And I the reason I say this is like astonishing because I very much thought I remember watching him and he was like getting questions from the chat, right? Like just like randoms, you know, asking questions to threat guy which live. No, it wasn't thread guy. It was just like they they did like a you know an in-house like chat like I'm going to I'm going to do a live stream answer and then I'm going to do like a live Q&A and I remember at the time being like okay this is this see this feels like very SPF like not you know not to be too sort of doomer but I was like man like exactly exactly and we're all going to look back and be like exact that's what I'm saying like that's I think that was my point though because like if there was times when SPF did pretty well right like it came across like this you know did a great if you were a crypto person understood anything then then you wouldn't think so but maybe to a non-crypto person. Okay. Like I'm saying prior to FTX SPF had prior to the collapse SPF had this like endearing like oh he's just smarter than all of us he gets it like you know let let him be and even if he's a bit quirky but he would do these you know interviews and stuff and come across as a little bit you know weird or you know like condescending but it was like oh that's SPF right? So, but my point was with the with the BBIT hack thing was like it was the same like the front and center man like answering questions from the public engaging and it's like okay this could either go really well or really poorly and like all things considered like it's it's turned out quite well right

Gwart: his lawyers definitely told him don't do that right you would have thought Hayden's lawyers would have told him not to date

Laura Shin: yeah so basically Ben if you're listening and the whole by bit exchange thing doesn't work out you have a very promising future in crisis communications. I think that's the takeaway. All right. Okay. Next topic. Let's talk about the XRP and Cardano reserve that Trump floated on Twitter which um I think yeah got a collective groan from crypto except for certain more diluted um subgroups within crypto. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that one.

Doug: Well, I know Gwart's a a big XRP XRP fan. So, I mean, it's like the most patent, right? I don't I don't know. I don't want to use the wrong terminology here, by something like pay for play. I don't know how else to describe it, right? Like law like intense lobbying.

Gwart: It's everybody. So, this was another thing where we all get behind Trump as this like somebody who's going to, you know, lead crypto to the promised land and then like this is what ends up happening and it's kind of like oof like I don't know about this and yeah that I remember them tweeting that right and how did that even come out and he it was Trump literally just tweeted it straight from his truth so profile like out of the blue like like and not only that but he didn't mention in Bitcoin or Ether. It was XRP, Salana, and and Cardano. That those were the three named in the tweet. That was the beginning of the end for ETH. I think that was the top. Cardono got the nudge. They got a nod. Got it. Not ETH. Sorry. Not peer reviewed enough.

Doug: Well, it's also coming to you because

Laura Shin: Go ahead. I was It's funny because it's like right like a lot of people who aren't in crypto are like just think oh crypto is all like scammy like vaporware whatever and then there are like people in crypto who like probably think some of these coins are like okay this is not like real crypto. Um but you know it's kind of it's kind of like maybe a taste of our uh you know a taste of what other people outside crypto kind of probably view all of Trump and crypto or at least kind of the skeptics.

Gwart: Well, also you have to understand that and I I this isn't, you know, like um this isn't necessarily my thought. I think a lot of people have kind of, you know, said this before, but crypto outside of crypto Twitter actually is a lot of XRP and a lot of Cardono, right? Like we make this joke about the Uber drivers like for some reason they love XRP and they love Cardono. these groups of coins that none of us really talk about on a daily basis. Most of us don't follow. Most of us think are largely vaporware are like somehow resonating with the American people or like some of the American people, right? So, it's one of those things I think where like it was especially jarring for us because like we're like, "Hang on, you didn't even include Bitcoin or ETH?" Like, you know, and those are the things we talk about all the time. If you're trying to reach mass, you know, audience with these things, like, yeah, it probably is not a bad idea to pump the coins or, you know, uh, show support for the coins that the taxi drivers like or whatever the the trope is.

Laura Shin: Yeah. But actually the reason he did that, I don't know if you guys remember this, Politico came out with a news article explaining how that tweet got tweeted and it was something like the Ripple um lobbyist got uh him to do that and um somehow did it like like they had they persuaded him to do it the night before and it sort of bypassed the normal checks on his tweets. And not only that, but that in the um tweet, the reason that Salana was included was to make it seem more um legitimate to crypto people. Like literally, Salana, they had they did not lobby at all for anything even remotely related to that. And they were as shocked as anybody else that they were included, but like Ripple apparently wanted Salana to be in the tweet to make it look more legit.

Doug: So, well, I mean, obviously obviously he took an Uber the night before, got talking to the driver, and he was it was built. So, I guess the XRP and Cardono communities have to thank their um their, you know, their emissary and the Uber driver, which I'm sure the Secret Service loved that President Trump took an Uber. He's getting some pizza late at night Friday. Grab an Uber.

Laura Shin: Okay. Okay. Next topic, White House Crypto Summit, which had this glorious presentation of like something related to FIFA in addition to talking about crypto. Um, you know, lot a lot of interesting people there. Um, you know, some real legit people in crypto obviously. Um, A16Z, Coinbase, Gemini, Chainlink, there there were others as well. Um, Brad Garlinghouse was there. Uh yeah, trace for your thoughts and let's not forget the FIFA bit. I actually don't remember the FIFA bit. What happened?

Doug: I think like the if I recall correctly, we were all trying to watch this live stream and and the whole first like 30 minutes was him doing this. Was there going to be like a FIFA coin as well? Is like something it had it was like adjacent to crypto or was it just with regards to the World Cup stuff? I just remember watching this and like it was all about the FIFA thing for the first 30 minutes.

Laura Shin: So he pitched the idea of a FIFA coin, but he also like unveiled a what was it? He I think he unveiled like a, you know. Yeah. What what was that? It was like a statueish thing or I don't know.

Gwart: True. Yeah. Unfortunately, I didn't like rewatch it for this episode, but um don't you remember he like had this thing on his table and it was like gold.

Laura Shin: Yeah. And it's Oh, is this what you felt like a gold brick or something?

Gwart: Uh, I vaguely hang over this. Yeah. Yeah. It's unfortunate that I didn't get a chance to um Oh, it was like a World Cup trophy possibly. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yes.

Laura Shin: Did they ever come out with coin or is that that's still in development?

Doug: That's in the works. A lot of tech needed to figure that out. Some research development.

Laura Shin: So at least um so he pitched the idea but then I think there was like an unrelated FIFA coin that took off. So like yeah he he mentioned this but then um and the actual coin that took off because of it was not actually related to FIFA just had the name Oh it just had the name FIFA. It's your standard Pump. Fun there. Was that Hayden again? Was that of another Hayden special? Pump.f fun meets White House CryptoSummit.

Laura Shin: Okay. Okay. Well, so now we're going to talk about something that was actually like significant crypto news in my opinion which really started in 2024 and it was the success of Hyperlquid and that you know has kind of become like a category definer. We've seen like so many new entrance come to compete in that space because of hyperlquid success and um you know despite how so many other crypto projects have done hyperlquid is in a position where it pretty much still has like nearly all the true believers I think that it had. And yeah so there's so many phases of of their 2025 that we could talk about. There was the scandal around the centralization and the bridge uh security where Taylor Monahan was pointing out, hey you guys like North Korean uh you know people are using your protocol and they're clearly trying to figure out how to hack it. Um then you know there were a few different things with like Arthur Hayes you know initially buying a bunch and then selling a bunch because of the unlocks you know the whole James Win arc and then the fight with CZ um in in tweets. Um yeah then there's been a whole bunch of competitors. We will talk about 1010 later, but yeah, any thoughts on any aspect of Hyperlquid's arc in 2025?

Doug: You're the feel like it was a very cynical cynical year, right? like especially got more cynical as the year went on and uh you know Hyperliquid is the one coin where people kind of weren't cynical about maybe maybe even just like just the past couple weeks people have been kind of getting frustrated but uh but like it's kind of kind of amazing in terms of like I can't think of another coin this year maybe BTC where people are like as like non-critical of it with with good reason yeah or maybe Zcash Zcash.

Gwart: Yeah.

Laura Shin: No, that's true. Gore, what are your thoughts on Hyperlquid's Arc?

Gwart: Uh, I don't know that I have anything especially profound to add. I think what they've done is remarkable. They should be, you know, showing that you can make money, I think, was, as crazy as it sounds, pretty profound in a sense. the buybacks and the way that that Hyperlid generates fees and turns that around and and creates value, I think, was there was somewhat of a paradigm shift with Hyperlid. And I think this revenue meta, which is obviously hilarious to anybody outside of our industry listening, right? Like the revenue meta, you mean just how markets and businesses work. Um but for for crypto is like one of the first I think really widespread and sort of like um you know it was it was an example of something like okay this is like a way that a a application can make money and turn around and and you know create value in it in its token. I think the secondary effects of that have been quite good at least in terms of how we're now thinking about it. So, I'm very impressed with Hyperlid. Obviously, it's a competitive space. Um, Doug's competing. I'm not competing, but everybody else I know is competing. So, uh, yeah, I don't I'm the Joey I will perk decks.

Doug: Yeah. Yeah. I would immediately supplant Fogo or whatever it was called. Um, I think that the like with regards to the jelly jelly thing that is not um it's not ideal. Also, the way they handled it maybe makes a lot of sense for users uh of the protocol. With that said, you know, you look at that from the outside and you see a very low liquidity coin that can be, you know, manipulated and then the rules kind of changed to undo the manipulation. It's like it yeah that's it's a slight you know stain on on I I'm not and again I'm not saying they necessarily handle it wrong but you know those things like do show there's still room for improvement perhaps.

Gwart: Yeah it's at least against the crypto ethos. Um, I think for me, like what I um have thought was hilarious was um there was different memes that have gone around about Jeff and CZ and um there's like random things that I've seen where um people will tweet like photos of Jeff and they'll like just make like I so I don't remember exactly when this was or what this was, but um there was a a photo of Jeff kind of like just sitting probably like in an audience somewhere and he was sort leaning back and then he had his legs in shorts and they were sort of stretched out and you know he's like a like an athletic guy and like they said something about like his legs being like you know whatever like something about the athleticism of his legs and how that gave him confidence and hyper I I forget the exact tweet but the reason I mentioned this is because then later you had these tweets where CZ would be like doing push-ups or what and people would like put an image of Jeff like behind see like get like CZ like like lurking behind him like watching him do his push-ups or whatever and I just thought those were so funny and um yeah there is something to this whole like Jeff versus CZ arc that I find hilarious and like the memes about it.

Laura Shin: Um, chip does he does look like a trustworthy guy or like if are you saying?

Gwart: No, no comment on that. But no, I don't know. It's also I mean Jeff Jeff's interesting like how like how he handles kind of coms and stuff, right? Like he he's very much kind of different than a lot of founders where you know he's you know less less is more. He doesn't say a ton, but like what he does say I think kind of you know is clear and people trust him a lot. So, uh, you know, it works cuz they have a lot of credibility, obviously.

Laura Shin: Yeah. Yeah. Kane on a recent show of ours on Easy Money, he said that he liked to see that Jeff was being more proactive on the timeline and like um Yeah. not not being as aloof. Um, okay. You guys, I just have to ask you about the whole James Win arc. Do you think that like who do you think James Win was? Then I know we all eventually heard him talk on infamous Twitter spaces and that was alarming. But what cuz I don't know if you remember there was a period where the rumor was like it was a CC alt. Um so what like what did you think of that whole thing?

Doug: I it's really just the the voice I like I don't it was just that that Twitter space when he came on was I mean he was obviously drunk or or something right like it was I don't know um I mean he is British so I mean he like lost him British he's more than just okay British yeah I don't know he yeah I don't know it feels like like it does seem like people were I I think with CT a lot of times like people want to look for like a hero and it's like like a traitor hero like this guy like knows what he's doing. He generates alpha and like at the end of the day I don't know how many people CT looks up to actually generate alpha or they just take yeah maybe zero. They just take right they're just gamblers right and it's just whoever has had the hottest run at the table um in the past whatever six months. Uh, so I don't know. It just seems like a recurring thing where it's like, okay, CT picks a hero, like thinks he's amazing, and then, you know, kind of ends up your hero's passed out on the front lawn with his pants over his head.

Gwart: Yeah. At that point though, he was trying to do other things to make money, which like he was taking donations. And dude, he did a he he had a memecoin, right? What was the memecoin called? He had a meme coin. Oh, man. Like a like a a pump. Yeah. Oh yeah, it was um very much so a memecoin. Yeah, the whole thing was quite bizarre. I mean, he's like throwing around a billion dollars in size and then is pumping a memecoin with like $30 million market cap. It didn't really Well, it should have maybe keyed people into uh whether or not this guy was like a gigabrain trader or just like was running super hot, right? But um yeah, I tend to agree. is like the hottest guy at the table. Crypto Twitter tends to coales around and then they realize that it was just, you know, running way above expectation for a certain amount of time. Like, oh, hang on now. Yeah. I mean, I'm leaving see who the next one is.

Laura Shin: Yeah. But it's not only that he had the mean coin, he did something else which I can't remember. It was to make money, but initially he was like soliciting the donations and then it was something like he um Did he get any? How How much did he get donated to him?

Gwart: Oh my gosh. He did. He did get some donations. Who was the person donating to James Win? I want to That's You should have that person on as a guest. The guy who donated money to J. Yeah. But the interesting thing too about that was, correct me if I'm wrong, but he was at one point I don't know if you remember this dog, but he was up he was like actually up was it like o over 100 million, right? It was over 100. Yeah. Yeah. And so at that point like that's an amount of money where you really can just move to an island forever. You know what I mean? And so I think the the actual like part of the part of the allure there was just the the actual like nominal size was very you know was like whoa this is this is real money right just to all go down to zero. It's like a far like if you keep betting the farm you're going to lose the farm. It's just like yeah a good cautionary tale for crypto this year. Um, I'm not sure how many people learned that lesson before 1010, but anyway. Okay. Okay. What about um the EF turnaround or Ethereum turnaround? Um, obviously 2024 was a period of pain in my opinion for Ethereum. The community kind of had a revolt. Um, some people might be mad at me for saying that, even though the Ethereum community was very loud on the timeline. I'm just reporting the facts. They were demanding you know that the leadership change there was a lot of uh appointed commentary at Vitalik himself directly and in 2025 the new really honestly it's really only one of the new co-executive directors um you know Tomas Stone uh the other one Shaw Wang she doesn't like say a lot or do a lot as far as I can tell or at least at least most people talk about Tomas um but yeah it sort of feels like Ethereum is in a much better place than it was a year ago. So, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that one.

Doug: Well, Quart loves Ethereum. He's a He's a Eve Maxi. So, I don't want to say anything bad might make him mad. I will be honest. Guys should have a throw down right now.

Gwart: I don't have uh so I I really don't like I'll just be very direct. I don't think that like the price action or reemergence of Ethereum has anything to do with the turnaround at the EF like this just I you know in terms of price action the last year it's because Tom Lee first of all we had a mini bare market and then we have Tom Lee and ETFs and institutions and the tech is like could it honestly is functionally irrelevant to what is actually pumping the price and and and with regards to partnerships and where people are building. It's that also doesn't have much to do with the price at a functional level. I mean, it's in people's minds more often, right? Maybe it's in retail's minds more often, like people who are looking for stuff to buy like, okay, then, you know, e uh Doug is notorious in our group chat for talking about, you know, shilling ETH to the his country club's dentist, right? Like the his dad's orthodontist friends, right? like they want to pile them into something that's not too real coming from. But this like I mean I'm I just don't believe that the EF turned around or like anything. I mean it's just purely like a function of market like oscillations, right? And people read into this stuff and oh you know Ethereum is in war mode. It's like no dude Tom Lee is on right now. Such good hair. Is that what it is? I mean, it's a much more that has more to do with it than the turnaround at the like nonprofit organization that's primarily funding, you know, frivolous endeavors in third world countries. Like that's my opinion.